Hi All,

I've dabbled in web design for a while now, and really want to move into web development. I've a good knowledge of design applications and xHTML/CSS.

In the past I have tended to use free scripts (usually php/mysql) and edited them to fit my requirements, sometimes hacking together a few scripts. I will then apply a nice design, but it never feels like an elegant solution.

So I want to learn how to create my own scripts basically, because a lot of times I have come up with a good idea for a site, but not been able to execute it effectively.

I'm really confused about what is the best thing to learn, and I read lots of contrasting opinion about which is the best thing. I've had good ideas for web startups, so that is the ultimate aim, so speed of development and security is a priority.

With this in mind, I have looked into PHP, but also have begun looking into ASP.Net combined with C#. I like the visual studio web development software (e.g. easy integration of ajax), but prefer the syntax of PHP (seems easier to understand to me). I would imagine ASP.Net would be great if you was a competent C# programmer.

But then I thought about frameworks. Ruby on Rails and Django appear to really speed up development - but obviously as I do not know Ruby/Python that would take time. I have also looked into PHP Frameworks.

Given that I do not know any language in depth, but do know bits about the theory what would you recommend I learn? I'm leaning towards php/mysql since it is so proven, particularly given the documentation available on the web.

In terms of careers, I'm not studying comp sci so there would be no benefit to me in learning a particular language for job prospects - I just need the best tool to do the job.

Any advice appreciated.

Given your interests, background, and goals, PHP would probably be a good choice for now. ASP could work too, but with it both your hosting options and choice of frameworks are more limited.

You could start with studying and experimenting with just the PHP language for about a month or so, and then, once you're fairly comfortable with it, you can move toward evaluating which of its various frameworks best suit your needs.

I would also recommend simultaneously exploring non-web programming in a language like Python or Ruby. Doing so should open up your long term options and make Rails and Django a more accessible option in the future.

Good places to start would be:

The Offical Python Tutorial
http://docs.python.org/tutorial/

Or, for Ruby, Chris Pine's Learning to program
http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/

Good luck

As i suggested you learn .NET framework.
Because nowadays all companies are doing project on .NET framework.
Like ASP.NET, JSP.NET, ADO.NET.......

rubbish!

get a machine with linux on it and learn perl - there's a revival going on and the perl linux developers are taking over all the money - just you watch...

dot net? more like dot waste-of-time.

give up on windows systems, learn proper development - become a REAL programmer, not some wuss who feeds off microsoft-provided tutorials and 'frameworks' and libraries.

PERL is the only language worth learning. The most valuable systems at the hard core of the most important frameworks of commerce, be they banks, service providers, search engines... all built in linux and unix environments, using C++ code and, as a glue language, good old perl. With perl you can learn to talk to anything and everything that comes your way, from sql to the web.

If you have real talent, don't waste your time on the windows world - it's for people without that inner core of true jedi ability... whether you are on the dark side of the force or a friend of yoda, the force only operates in linux and requires that you get familiar with perl as the ideal way to supplement your shell scripting pyramids of programming power.

Because of what I've learned over time, if I want to build a replica of google, but not the same scale of course, I could get a couple of empty computers, fill em with linux and write shell and perl code and have the entire model set up inside a single day - half of one. You can't do that in your microsoft environments because nothing is ever simple there - there's always waaaay too much peripheral rubbish to deal with.

Go for what the jedis go for - learn a MAN's programming language, not one of the many environments created for boys.

However, if you want a REALLY BIG salary to come your way in say 3 years due to having learned EXACTLY the right programming/I.T. stuff... then learn java. Become a god of java. If you can do that, you'll be someone even the perl and linux gurus get down on their knees and worship as a god.

Just my 44 cents.

There's always LOLcode...

Ah lolcode.

I invented a couple of languages myself - one is a metalanguage which translates human language into a form with a structural consistency that can be handled smoothly by any kind of ordinary software language.

The other is just a plan for a new "language", more of a framework - I have already named it, after a particular fruit, as the new solution to replace apple and microsoft windows and linux as the PRIMARY O.S. of humans' computers, and it's so good I won't even tell you how it works or what fruit it is. It's brilliant. If doctor who had an O.S. on his personal tardis deskop computer, this is the one she/he'd use. I shall build it for ALL O.S.s, as a layer to put on top, and a version for putting on to a wiped-clean pc. the mac version will always have to be a layer, alas. i suspect. although maybe i could attempt to buy Apple and change all that.

I've always hated one tla more than all tlas ever hated... that's OMG. and even worse is people saying (or more likely screaming, in an annoying teenage way) (or an american one, either way, annoying) the complete words behind that particular sordid tla.

Then I really hate lol. I once read an "amusing anecdote" about someone who instead of laughing, said "lol" - to someone's joke, in person.

People are indeed vacuous, and easily manipulated by accident or on purpose. It's a sick world. What do you do? You get your money, you find your island, you populate it, you let the world do it's crazy thing all by itself without your help. Isn't that everybody's plan?

just my dollar sixty-three

Problem with .net is it makes extensive use of activex controls, pretty much useless on the web (people will not trust your controls and allow them to be installed!)

Find a way to more widely expose your gifts in php with the installable apps people most popularly choose using hosting like Godaddy or other. It's the skin tweaks people need, and upkeep. Getting exoic just exhausts people and stalls projects.

It doesn't really matter what you choose to use as long as its fairly mainstream. If you make a quality script on your own that works, people will use it regardless of what it's written in.

I would suggest learning many various languages, with a focus on one of your choosing. Most are similar in many aspects, and syntax is the only concern. And syntax, of course, is easy to Google.

The easiest to get started with and the most applicable and generally most usable online would be PHP.

Also you need to understand how XML works in php if you want to take advantage of interactions with Web Services. There are libraries for everything like SOAP for XML.

There is a huge amount of code available in PHP that is open-source and is easy to learn from too. My sites/apps often use open source class libraries and I do the integrations required between them.

I started with Perl and then when PHP came along it was smooth sailing. Also if you are planning to do command line stuff in UNIX/Linux than Perl is your best bet to start with.

In any case you need to know basic code structures, basic OOP practices. Grab a simple script or package and "read" it through. Use the php website function manual to see what is happening.

You can use the php website as a reference when programming, I use it all the time... If I need to do something likely there is a function I can use that is described in detail in the online manual on the php website.

Thanks for the input everybody, and apologies for the delayed reply. I forgot about the thread!

I'm focusing on php/mysql for the time being, and at the same time reading up on everything that is "popular" at the moment so I at least have a knowledge of it. I don't know Ruby/Python so it seems pointless trying to learn them alongside a framework.

I think I have finally understood the concept of MVC, and is something that makes sense to me in a way.

I know in the past when I have written scripts, and used other scripts they can soon get messy with includes etc. all over the place, so keeping my scripts organised and logical in their layout is something I hope to do, definately using OOP. Whether I need to adopt the MVC model is debatable.

For the time being I am going to try without a framework, and if there comes a point where I think they would speed up development as they claim, I will look into it. There are so many to choose from, and all have a bit of a learning curve...