Hi all,

For the past several months I've been using Drupal for Web development; I know that many programmers are loyal to this, but I find it terribly frustrating to work with and I want to learn something else. Ideally, I'd like to learn something in addition to PHP that would allow me to get a good telecommuting job in Web development.

I know little about Ruby on Rails, but the more I look into it, the more attractive it seems. I'd like to hear your opinions about RoR and anything else that might be useful (Joomla? Django? Cake? etc.). Ideally, I can learn a good tool or language that is both enjoyable to use, even if there's a steep learning curve, and that would allow me to find a well-paying job. By the latter, I mean something around $40 - $60 per hour for a mid-level developer (that's my impression of the average rates, anyway).

For those of you who are interested, I have a few statistics from Dice.com, Craigslist, Google, etc. posted here:

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Thanks,

Tony

You will be lucky if you get that kind of wages and we wish you good luck in that and pray for you.Your efforts are in the right direction.

My advice is to find one technology and go with it. When you are starting out it would be foolish to study both RoR and PHP.

If you are still in need of a job, know that you will never start out at $40-$60 per hour when you have no industry experience, unless you are an MIT graduate or something. Your first job will pay no more than about $10 - $15 per hour, depending on where you are located. If you keep your head on straight, however, this can be a lucrative career.

Thanks for your replies. I do have experience, and I was able to find a telecommuting job that paid within the range I mentioned. The last thing I want to do at this point, especially given the economy and so many others looking for work, is sell myself short.

Anyway, I'm already familiar with PHP, and I can afford to spend more time learning something else in addition to gaining more experience with PHP. I keep hearing about Django. My impression is that it's the up-and-coming Web dev tool, any opinions on this? Or any other language/framework for that matter.

I've heard good things about Django also, mostly that it helps speed up the development process, similar to RoR. I can't say much more than that, as I don't know Python nor do I expect to start studying it in the near future. Python isn't as prevalent on web hosts as PHP, though I think it is becoming more common. RoR is about in the same category.

If you want me to guess where the higher paying jobs are located, I would say anything related to Python, not RoR, as some RoR developers have a reputation for being amateurish.

Personally, I'm committed to PHP for at least the near-future, and am developing my own lightweight framework and CMS to speed up my application development time.

I have seen very little return on Ruby on Rails except people saying they know it. Furthermore, most people who list it as a skill have very little in terms of online real website projects to show for it. I would say you are better off to extend your baseline skill set of really popular and easily instalable apps. Try to become expert of one of the better known and better used apps. I would not advise Drupal because it never seemed to have the flexibility of Joomla or the presentation appeal of even the phpbb forums.

Originally Posted by wayfarer07

If you want me to guess where the higher paying jobs are located, I would say anything related to Python, not RoR, as some RoR developers have a reputation for being amateurish.

Personally, I'm committed to PHP for at least the near-future, and am developing my own lightweight framework and CMS to speed up my application development time.

I didn't know that RoR has such a reputation, although given its popularity I'm not too surprised.

PHP to my knowledge seems like a safe bet for at least a few years to come. Developing your own CMS, even a simple one, sounds like a good way to gain some very useful experience. I've seen at least one job announcement that said that a CMS project counts favorably.

Originally Posted by specialk

I have seen very little return on Ruby on Rails except people saying they know it. Furthermore, most people who list it as a skill have very little in terms of online real website projects to show for it. I would say you are better off to extend your baseline skill set of really popular and easily instalable apps. Try to become expert of one of the better known and better used apps. I would not advise Drupal because it never seemed to have the flexibility of Joomla or the presentation appeal of even the phpbb forums.

I haven't used Joomla, but I can't see how it could be worse than Drupal. I won't go into the details, suffice it to say I want to put Drupal behind me. From what little I know, Joomla, Ruby on Rails, and Django seem like useful tools to know in addition to the safest bet, PHP. It'll be interesting to see where these technologies stand a year from now.

Joomla is nothing compared to RoR or Django, which are real frameworks and are quite advanced. IMO, Drupal is actually better than Joomla, but both have a very similar purpose. Neither of them are better for building the type sites I like to build, as I think they are too heavy to be flexible enough to do what I need.

Drupal and Joomla have the advantage of being extensionable (not that that means much) and they both have a community of developers around them, but I haven't been too impressed with either of them.

If you are looking for a PHP framework that is also a CMS, you may want to check out Expression Engine.

I have never really worked with Ruby on Rails, is there anything that it does that is different from other scripting languages like php, java, or asp?

I played a bit with Expression Engine; installation went very smoothly and the interface is clean. Other than this I know little about it, except that in most cases it's not free. There might be exceptions (for nonprofits, for example), however.

Well, the core of it is free. Of course, the larger version is not, but a lightweight core framework may be all you need to get started. Of course, like I said earlier, I don't use any of these systems, and am developing my own lightweight framework that is also a CMS. I'm a full-time freelancer, but if I ever decide to get a regular job, it will look nice in my portfolio. If I stay freelance, I'll be able to market it.

Whatever path you choose, try to stick with it. I get the feeling you are probably headed in the right direction.

Thanks, and likewise. It'll be very interesting to see how things stand a year from now.