If you were a web designer just starting out for the first time - what 3 languages would you start to learn and what graphics program would you use, based on what you know now.

(X)HTML, CSS What more does a web designer need?

GIMP, Paint Shop Pro or Inkscape.

How would you rate Java or any scripting languages in there?

Programming is not a designer's job.
Designing is not a programmer's job.

Trust me, you don't want a genius programmer to design your site interface, it would drive you off your own site.
Yet, I don't say a designer cannot be fluent in a programming language, but if he is pro, I think he'll either concentrate on the design or the programming part.

You cannot, in my opinion, be top in the 2 fields.

Beside, regarding your last question, I'd think "whatever let him the most comfortable"
He knows flash and action script, then he mostly will be ok yith javascript.
PHP is easy to learn, have a great community, and is widely supported.
Really, if he have the mind to be a progrmmer, he won't take long before being confident enough to do what he want to do with php, even if it's not optimal.

Basic Javascript possibly.

But any other scripting languages is the job of a programmer or a developer NOT a designer.

Well, I had worked with designer in the past that knew the basis of procedural languages.
When the logic is there, it's not much farther to create a simple php page with some if/else and echo.

I wasn't speaking of much more.
Restrospectively, I would just add that you can be a master in javascript/ajax and php, if you don't know SQL more than the basis, you won't go far away.

Originally Posted by chrishirst

(X)HTML, CSS What more does a web designer need?

GIMP, Paint Shop Pro or Inkscape.

Completely agree.

Originally Posted by tripy

Trust me, you don't want a genius programmer to design your site interface, it would drive you off your own site.

rofl - you ought to see my designs. I had one person volunteer to vomit. lol. Definitely a programmer here (don't know about the genius part).

rofl - you ought to see my designs. I had one person volunteer to vomit.

For Jeremy, Another quote, from Tex Avery's Droopy:

I like him... He's silly !

Fun apart, take a look at this. I often send peoples at this article when they ask me if I know photoshop:
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000734.html
...
This comes from it:

lol. That's even a bit much for me. The analogy that I give people refers to Data of Star Trek - I build interfaces as if Data were building an interface for Data; everything's very easy and able to be done in just a few clicks/keystrokes, but you have to know exactly what every click/keystroke will do. I'm trying to turn more toward "wizards" even though they drive me absolutely nuts.

well of course xhtml, css and Javascript is a must for designers. But I think it's also healthy to at least understand PHP. I can read it and write basic scripts. also XSLT is an up-coming language (languages). I've recently started looking into this more.

But I think it's also healthy to at least understand PHP

Why??

What if the site being designed is going to run on IIS servers with ASP or .NET or it's a ColdFusion, what use would having even an intimate knowledge of PHP be then?

A designers job is to design, not to develop scripts or construct databases.

Would you expect a painter & decorator to be able to build the house as well, or a car body repairer to change the engine?

also XSLT is an up-coming language

XSLT is not a so much upcoming language.
I use it at work, and believe me, sometimes I'd wish my company used PHP rather than xml+xslt...
And generating xml can already be a real pain...

There are a lot of things that needs to be done strangely in xslt, and it's a real nightmare when you must build complex layouts.
Especially when you HAVE to handle table....

Originally Posted by chrishirst

What if the site being designed is going to run on IIS servers with ASP or .NET or it's a ColdFusion, what use would having even an intimate knowledge of PHP be then?

Yes, sorry. That's what i ment. What ever server side code that your company uses. I didn't say it was a must but it's useful. I like my knowledge of it because now I don't go running to the developers every 2 seconds and plus I aspire to learn it fully. There is nothing wrong with that.

Originally Posted by tripy

XSLT is not a so much upcoming language.
I use it at work, and believe me, sometimes I'd wish my company used PHP rather than xml+xslt...
And generating xml can already be a real pain...

There are a lot of things that needs to be done strangely in xslt, and it's a real nightmare when you must build complex layouts.
Especially when you HAVE to handle table....

Tripy. I want to start learn XSLT. Should I go strait to learning xslt 2.0? So far I only know the basics.

Thanks.

I like my knowledge of it because now I don't go running to the developers every 2 seconds and plus I aspire to learn it fully. There is nothing wrong with that.

Actually there is. No disrepect intended, but I avoid designers who "know a bit of [insert code type] programming" like the plague.
I have worked with a couple in the past and invariably end up spending lots of time untangling the inefficient spaghetti code they have contrived to "write" to do a very simple task when I could have coded a function or added a property or method to a class in a tenth of the time.

Designers who can program really well and programmers who can design really well are few and far between, even "designers" who can really design in HTML & CSS rather than slicing up a PSD in photoshop are somewhat thin on the ground.

Really great designers are artistic people who don't do well with logic problems.
Really great programmers are very logical people who don't do well with abstracts such as colour balancing and attention focussing.

and "Vive la différence"!

In the vast swathe of the middle ground there is of course people who can do both. But more often than not their designs range from slightly above average to well below mediocre and their programming ranges from inefficient spaghetti to "what the hell is that"!