CSS Forum

**splat44** · 06-24-2009, 05:23 PM

Hi,

I have question about using frames within ccs.

If we take the following:
<html>
<frameset rows="90, *, 100">
<frame src="menu.html" name="top frame" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" nosize>
<frame src="Home.html" name="middle frame" scrolling="yes" frameborder="0" nozize>
<frame src="bottom.html" name="bottom frame" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" nosize>
</frameset>
</html>

I know the above isn't recomment but I still prefer due to followings:
- All frame including html files being load within specified frame
- Links clicked inside of menu.html, are being open inside of "middle frame" without breaking frame
- External link being clicked inside of home.html leading to pdf file also doesn't break frame example:
<a href ="http://www.somewhere.com/file.pdf" target="middle frame">Winter 2008 news</a>

Now is it possible doing the above using CSS including opening a pdf file still without breaking frame as seen above?

I am fairly new to CSS and we have to make sure coding work on all browser.

Regard

**wayfarer07** · 06-24-2009, 05:26 PM

I have only one word for you: don't.

**EricReese** · 06-24-2009, 05:33 PM

I have three words for you:

Listen to wayfarer07

**splat44** · 06-24-2009, 11:53 PM

Ok then I will still continue using frameset then!

Thank for your reply

**LadynRed** · 06-25-2009, 09:40 AM

Quote:

- All frame including html files being load within specified frame

BUT, your load times are going to be longer because you're not loading ONE file, you're loading THREE!

Quote:

- Links clicked inside of menu.html, are being open inside of "middle frame" without breaking frame

There's no reason to use a frame for that, and it's not efficient at all. If you think you're saving bandwidth or something by doing this - you're not.

Quote:

- External link being clicked inside of home.html leading to pdf file also doesn't break frame example:

You still don't need a frame. You could open a PDF in a modal window (like Lightbox), or just let it open as it normally would.

Frames are first OLD, second, they are horrible for accessibility, and last but not least, they are NOT the way to go if you want your site indexed by search engines - the framed pages will NOT be crawled.

I would direct you to these articles:
http://godbit.com/article/why-are-frames-bad
http://www.yourhtmlsource.com/frames/goodorbad.html
http://www.mattheerema.com/web-desig...re-frames-bad/
http://www.search-marketing.info/traps/frames.htm

I think that's enough, though there are plenty more where they came from !

**wayfarer07** · 06-25-2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

the framed pages will NOT be crawled.

Actually, technically the pages are crawled, but each frame becomes an "orphan", not a part of the main content. So each frame is seen as separate content, which is almost as bad as if it is not there.

Even with IFRAMES this is a problem, though there is still some main content (the frame is still an orphan), but if you use a FRAMESET, there will be no main content whatsover - which is absolutely horrible if you want your page to be public.

**splat44** · 06-26-2009, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayfarer07

Actually, technically the pages are crawled, but each frame becomes an "orphan", not a part of the main content. So each frame is seen as separate content, which is almost as bad as if it is not there.

Even with IFRAMES this is a problem, though there is still some main content (the frame is still an orphan), but if you use a FRAMESET, there will be no main content whatsover - which is absolutely horrible if you want your page to be public.

Well, if I add the following to index file, that shouldn't be a problem!
<html>
<head>
... frameset and ect...
</head>
<body></body>
</html>

Regards

**Sean Lum Design** · 06-26-2009, 04:11 AM

frameset = ugly-old-practice.

Reasons:
Bad for SEO (ie no crawling)
complicated linking
its frowned upon in general.

**LadynRed** · 06-26-2009, 09:44 AM

Quote:

<html>
<head>
... frameset and ect...
</head>
<body></body>
</html>

Horrible.. and wrong, framesets don't go in the <head> section!

In case you're not getting it from the responses here, frames are just bad for so many reasons. Step into the 21st century of web building and use modern techniques.

**angele803** · 06-26-2009, 11:51 AM

Even when your framed pages do get indexed, it's still bad. What if I search google for something, and one of your "frame" paged comes up. I click on it and all I see is the content of that page (what would normally show up inside a frame on your site). I don't really know what site it belongs to, I don't have any navigation, get confused, and leave. If I found this page and it was not meant to be part of a frameset, you might have gained a new user/customer.
I think everything you want to do is possible without using framesets - aside from loading the pdf. But like other's have mentioned, you can use a lightbox or even let it open normally.

**splat44** · 06-26-2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angele803

Even when your framed pages do get indexed, it's still bad. What if I search google for something, and one of your "frame" paged comes up. I click on it and all I see is the content of that page (what would normally show up inside a frame on your site). I don't really know what site it belongs to, I don't have any navigation, get confused, and leave. If I found this page and it was not meant to be part of a frameset, you might have gained a new user/customer.
I think everything you want to do is possible without using framesets - aside from loading the pdf. But like other's have mentioned, you can use a lightbox or even let it open normally.

Well, actually there few programs that allow choosing which pages to be spidered or not, including disable right clicking on links.

If spidered is same thing as crawling then I should be on right track.

If lightbox is same as opening link as normal when clicked on and see address bar changing accordingly, then I say forgot it.

Regard

**LadynRed** · 06-26-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

including disable right clicking on links.

And WHY would you mess with that functionality ?? All that is is some javascript, which anyone with a brain can disable and resume right-clicking all they want !

Quote:

If lightbox is same as opening link as normal when clicked on and see address bar changing accordingly, then I say forgot it.

Not quite.. maybe you should Google "lightbox" and see for yourself.

You seem determined to ignore all the best practices that we have been pointing out.. so all I can then say to you is "forgot it!"

**downrollings** · 06-27-2009, 10:13 AM

u guys are rocking......

nice tips.....

thanks to everyone for such wonderful tips......