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Tables to CSS. Where Do I Start
Old 06-03-2007, 12:30 AM Tables to CSS. Where Do I Start
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Hi Everyone. I have a ton of great information. I taught myself basic html via http://www.w3schools.com/default.asp.

I keep reading that tables are really bad. I want to take some css classes at my local tech school, but what can I do for now? What is the easiest way to convert to css without any formal education in webdesign.

Does anyone have some good links for style sheets other than w3 schools?
Anything in Layman's Terms?

The other links you gave were great, but so complicated.
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Old 06-03-2007, 02:25 AM Re: Tables to CSS. Where Do I Start
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The one major issue with tableless layouts is that they're not the easiest things in the world to learn, and even more difficult to master.

The best thing I can suggest is to just dive into the code, get as close as you can, and then get help on the other issues.
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Old 06-03-2007, 07:54 AM Re: Tables to CSS. Where Do I Start
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I really would recommend that you just look through the w3schools CSS tutorial - I did it and it only took me a day or two to complete. After that you will have enough knowlege to create a pure CSS website - probably badly tho

After that its just a case of practise makes perfect. Whilst you do so, read articles, post in this forum, and listen to the wisdom of LadyNRed
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Old 06-03-2007, 10:10 AM Re: Tables to CSS. Where Do I Start
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Both of your sites look very clean.

I viewed the source, and I understand the free game site's code a little better.

I'll get on those tutorials ASAP.

BTW. Do you think it would help to take an online class from my tech school, or do you think w3 schools will be just as good?
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Old 06-03-2007, 10:50 AM Re: Tables to CSS. Where Do I Start
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W3 Schools would be better. Tech schools just don't get it.
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Old 06-03-2007, 11:08 AM Re: Tables to CSS. Where Do I Start
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http://htmldog.com/ is a great place to start learning.
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Old 06-03-2007, 11:29 AM Re: Tables to CSS. Where Do I Start
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I highly recommend this book from SitePoint:
http://www.sitepoint.com/books/css2/

That one will take you from Tables to CSS, it's an excellent book.
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Old 06-03-2007, 11:46 AM Re: Tables to CSS. Where Do I Start
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When you don't really have a lot to unlearn with respect to tables, you're in a better place than those who do.

Rule 1: You don't need to memorize a pile of element names and specs.

In practice you'll be working with divs, headings, paragraphs, and lists with respect to layout, along with the occasional image.

Rule 2: Chances are that if you're doing it right, you'll be using a lot of CSS background images instead of inline images.

Images that stand for content can be said (if you're a True Believer like myself) to belong in inline image elements, while the rest should be published via CSS rules. YMMV.

Rule 3: You'll need to comprehend the different between inline, block, and list-item elements.


This information is most easily found at http://www.w3.org/TR/html401 - where the section for each element is prefaced with its DTD block. One of the data attached to each element name will be its type - %block, %inline, or %flow most of the time. There are others as well.

Rule 4: In order to make IE6 play nicely, you'll find yourself assigning height and/or width values to elements that don't actually need them.

This is due to peculiarities in the IE rendering engine that even seasoned professionals have a difficult time at understanding.

Rule 5: Use containing elements if and only if you need to... which will be often.

The fewer elements you use, the easier it will be to manage your work product.

Rule 6: The cascade works for some CSS properties, but not others.

As a rule text properties will cascade/inherit, but layout/box properties will not.

Rule 7: Well-tuned descendant selectors are your best friend when you write a stylesheet.

I'll let Google explain this one.

Rule 8: Putting an id on the body of each document is a Good Idea when you're starting out.

Whether the ids in question is section-specific or actually page-specific, including these id's will give you a solid baseline for those occasions on which you need to work with descendant selectors.

Rule 9: Bear in mind that done well, leverage of CSS allows you to put the components of a site into their own baskets.

Presentation goes in one basket (via link elements), behavior in another (via script elements that request external files), structure in a third (via well-considered templates), and content in the ultimate (your actual documents/pages/DB-records).

Rule 10: The most important goal of avoiding tables is to ensure that your document sans styling reads coherently.

If you can achieve the goal of coherence while using tables for layout and decide to take that approach, that makes you a pragmatist - not a criminal.

Adjunct to this is that impaired users are fairly split down the middle with respect to preference for site nav bits being at the top of the page or the bottom.

Another benefit to avoiding tables is that your work is more likely to be readable in narrow viewports (read: mobiles) but given the Balkanized state of display support in the mobile space, this becomes a secondary concern for a lot of folks.

The best secondary benefit to avoiding tables is that you can set aside a well-rounded print stylesheet for your entire site that will be comparatively easy to write and maintain.


In closing, I'll toot my own horn and point out that there are a few goodies of mine over at http://www.henick.net/vignettes/ which, while aimed at the experienced reader, manage to point (on the by and by) to some sites you might find worth visiting (if you haven't already).
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Old 06-03-2007, 11:56 PM Re: Tables to CSS. Where Do I Start
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Thanks Padraig. http://htmldog.com/ is a great link. It's not as busy as w3school. Sorry if my awful webdesign offends y'all. You have to start somewhere, right?
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Old 06-04-2007, 04:46 AM Re: Tables to CSS. Where Do I Start
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You might also want to try http://webdesignfromscratch.com/
for an all round approach to designing on the web
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Old 06-04-2007, 10:41 AM Re: Tables to CSS. Where Do I Start
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenguy View Post
Thanks Padraig. http://htmldog.com/ is a great link. It's not as busy as w3school. Sorry if my awful webdesign offends y'all. You have to start somewhere, right?
Yea I learned a lot from HTMLDog. Its a great website. W3Schools is great when you get the gist of CSS because it teaches you more advanced techniques in my opinion.

http://newguyinennis.com/samples/layouts : There are some great, basic, CSS layouts there to have a look at.
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Old 06-04-2007, 02:04 PM Re: Tables to CSS. Where Do I Start
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Originally Posted by LadynRed View Post
I highly recommend this book from SitePoint:
http://www.sitepoint.com/books/css2/

That one will take you from Tables to CSS, it's an excellent book.
I second this suggestion. I would recommend that you buy this book over going to a tech class. It helped me sooooo much when I was first learning.
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