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Old 03-20-2009, 10:36 PM Domain Name Dispute
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I have built, maintained, and hosted a web site pointing to a very popular generic 2 word domain name for almost 10 years for a client. I myself purchased this domain in 1999, renewed it since then, and have used it to point to this customer's web files. I informed him in the very beginning that because of its generic name, I was not selling the domain to him. He was free to use it if he paid me a small yearly fee or I would put it on the market for another to purchase. I also encouraged this client to purchase his own domain name that matched his business name. But he chose not to do this.

Now after these many years, he wants another designer which is fine. I have used this domain name and my designs to get him very high search rankings via Google and other major search engines. He said this domain is owned by him? I reminded him that this 2 word generic domain name was never his - he can see for himself on the registrar's site. His business name is not registered or trademarked and does not match this domain name.

Now he has an attorney demanding I hand over the domain transfer to him. This client was a friend of my family and never cared about this matter or wanted any signed contracts. He mentioned many times over the years how he was going to someday sell this domain for a tidy profit. I told him it never belonged to him.

Now I have secured an attorney to defend me. I do not want to go to court, but I am not handing off a very valuable domain name for nothing too.

Any thoughts would be apprciated on this matter.

SilverTech
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Old 03-20-2009, 11:21 PM Re: Domain Name Dispute
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What a sucky situation, I don't see anyway that this other guy could possibly win the rights to the domain. What is his angle, like what makes him think he owns it...Just because you let him have use of it?
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Old 03-20-2009, 11:26 PM Re: Domain Name Dispute
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HighRoller23,

Thank you. This guy likes to be a bully in his business. He will be in for a long fight here.

Thanks,

SilverTech

Last edited by silvertech; 03-20-2009 at 11:26 PM.. Reason: Typo
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Old 03-21-2009, 03:52 AM Re: Domain Name Dispute
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An abject lesson in why "there are no friends in business" and why you should always have a contract regardless of who the client is.
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:42 AM Re: Domain Name Dispute
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An abject lesson in why "there are no friends in business" and why you should always have a contract regardless of who the client is.
Point well taken. In the future, this will always be the case.

Thank you.
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Old 03-24-2009, 05:04 AM Re: Domain Name Dispute
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highly dumb matter!

@silvertech

talk with your lawyer and i think you can put up a harassment case against that guy and why not charge him a fortune! lol
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Old 03-24-2009, 07:37 AM Re: Domain Name Dispute
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Hi,

It’s a bit of a mess this one because by the sounds of it, neither party has any contract or any terms of business or anything signed regarding this arrangement in place. The only party here to make money will be the legal firms!

If you have documented the fact that this was the arrangement in place and have something in writing to that effect it would help your cause but I suspect that’s not the case.

The fact that he hasn’t got an official trade mark on the name is only a minor factor as his legal team would no doubt argue that it’s an implied trade mark anyway as his business itself has been using the domain name as a trading name, I,e Blogs t/a keyword-domain and as such he has the legal right to continue using that trading name. (But that doesn’t necessarily mean continue using the domain name itself)

Meanwhile you are the registered owner of the domain which helps your cause after all, it was you that paid and registered the domain in your name, your client on the other hand paid you for building a website and hosting and the rental of a suitable domain name.

It’s not a clear cut case in my mind, unless you can find any existing case law anywhere with a situation similar to this. My advice would be to investigate this first, use Google and forums where disputes are discussed and see if you can find any existing case law anywhere. If you can and it’s in your favour you can use it to defend your position and they won’t stand a chance meanwhile if you find any against your position equally that could hamper your chances of success. This wouldn’t make the outcome a foregone conclusion but it would push it a long way in either direction and you would at least have a clearer idea of where you might stand if it went all the way.

Other than that, if you can’t find any case law, haven’t got anything in writing then next step would be in my mind to try and reach mediation with this party (no matter how you feel about him) I would put it in writing (on record) that your involvement with him was in the capacity of a web designer, that you built and hosted a website for him and that you rented him a suitable domain name that you owned for that purpose (he obviously wont like that but that’s how it is). I would then go on to say that it would be better for you both to enter mediation in order to resolve the dispute rather than enter into a possibly lengthy and expensive legal battle.

Should this case reach court, the fact that you have held out an olive branch in order to resolve the matter via mediation first will show willing on your behalf if nothing else!

The next step would be to ascertain or somehow agree a valuation for the domain, I suspect at some point the legal teams would want an idea of what the disputed property is worth anyway (what a similar name was sold for). You would then need to negotiate with him a realistic settlement i.e. he buys the domain off you for X or he continues to rent it off you until Y and sell it in the open market, or you reach some other arrangement – this is only what I would suspect legal’s would try and do first.

If he remains pig headed and is demanding that you hand it over for nothing and won’t enter mediation to resolve then all you can do is instruct your own legal’s and try and resolve as cheaply as possible but frankly I think it’s a stupid route to take for both of you if it can be avoided.

As I’ve commented , it’s not clear cut as I see it, obviously you will need professional legal advice on this and they will know more about these kinds of issues to advise you better once they know all of the facts involved and what paperwork has been issued / exchanged between you and this party previously etc, but from my own experience I would say it’s always better to mediate than enter the legal route.

Good luck

Rich
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Old 03-24-2009, 07:45 AM Re: Domain Name Dispute
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Rick,

Thank you for your detailed reply. I have secured a lawyer. It looks encouraging and hopefully all will work out. Both attorneys will be mediating a settlement. One lesson I learned is that whenever another party contacts you via an attorney, it is imperative that you immediately contact an attorney in your defense. But I will have to reserve my optimism as the legal system can be tricky. A valuable lesson learned here concerning using contracts no matter who the customer may be.

Last edited by silvertech; 03-24-2009 at 07:50 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 03-24-2009, 08:08 AM Re: Domain Name Dispute
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Make sure you'll update this thread and tell us about he outcome.
Do you run business on the same grounds with all the clients?
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Old 03-24-2009, 04:05 PM Re: Domain Name Dispute
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Make sure you'll update this thread and tell us about he outcome.
Do you run business on the same grounds with all the clients?
Will do. Thank you.
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:30 PM Re: Domain Name Dispute
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That is good leson for you. A sad situation
Domain name should be under your control to administer it
Good luck
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Old 03-25-2009, 06:29 PM Re: Domain Name Dispute
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That is good leson for you. A sad situation
Domain name should be under your control to administer it
Good luck
True. A valuable lesson learned here. I have been the registrar of the domain name for over 9 years.

Thank you.
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Old 03-26-2009, 08:11 AM Re: Domain Name Dispute
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That is a trick which web hosting providers play to get you as the customer.
And newbies do not have any idea about the process of the domain name registration
That is a true web host can do whatever they need and everything is up to their honestly.
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Old 03-26-2009, 03:18 PM Re: Domain Name Dispute
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disclaimer
I am not a lawyer.

But...
It seems to me that if he wanted the domain name he should have registered it himself. Has he been paying you monthly/yearly to lease the domain name? If he has, it's clearly not his domain name and he should have no rights to it.
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Old 03-26-2009, 05:42 PM Re: Domain Name Dispute
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That is a trick which web hosting providers play to get you as the customer.
And newbies do not have any idea about the process of the domain name registration
That is a true web host can do whatever they need and everything is up to their honestly.

What, where was that said...?

silvertech the domain is in your name right? It's not the one free domain from a hosting provider is it?? If it is, Id request that sucker be transferred to a private register under your name! If that were the case, I could see how the weasel might have a case. He paid for use, he could say that was for hosting or some bs n that the domain & its renewals is contingent on continued hosting fees...Basically him claiming part ownership. Can you share with us the domain name? or PM me...You got me interested in this situation now.
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Old 03-27-2009, 07:22 AM Re: Domain Name Dispute
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All the best Silvertech !!! Do let us know the progress of the case.....
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Old 05-03-2009, 06:31 PM Re: Domain Name Dispute
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Sorry for not replying in some time. This client did serve me with a civil complaint in federal court. He made me a minimal offer for the domain name which I did not accept and responded with a civil law suit on me. I am glad to know the federal court will be used to charge a part time hobbyist web developer who charged his wealthy client $50 per month for his services.

His claim is I violated the Lanham Act. I have read this act and do not see his point. One thing in my favor that he is unaware of is that I registered this domain name in April 1999. The Lanham Act was revised in November 1999, so no damages or lawyer fees apply against any defendants like myself. This pertains to cyber piracy claims which are not valid here too.

He uses a common law trademark which he never informed me about or uses on any of his other marketing materials. The Lanham Act when applying to common law trademarks (versus federal registered trademarks) only addresses claims of "Unfair Competition." I have never competed with him nor have I used the disputed domain name for my own business interests. Another invalid cliam.

This guy is bullying me because he has significant cash reserves and refuses to negotiate a fair business settlement outside of court.

For you other web designers, be very careful. The Lanham Act permits plaintiffs $100,000 in damages for those (knowing or not) using a domain name with someone's federal registered trade mark. And try looking one up as it is not easy to discover who has registered one. I did not know the Internet was intended as a marketing tool for business entities.

I will keep all you informed as this progresses.

Thanks again and best of luck to you all.

Last edited by silvertech; 05-03-2009 at 06:32 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 05-08-2009, 04:49 AM Re: Domain Name Dispute
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Originally Posted by silvertech View Post
Sorry for not replying in some time. This client did serve me with a civil complaint in federal court. He made me a minimal offer for the domain name which I did not accept and responded with a civil law suit on me. I am glad to know the federal court will be used to charge a part time hobbyist web developer who charged his wealthy client $50 per month for his services.

His claim is I violated the Lanham Act. I have read this act and do not see his point. One thing in my favor that he is unaware of is that I registered this domain name in April 1999. The Lanham Act was revised in November 1999, so no damages or lawyer fees apply against any defendants like myself. This pertains to cyber piracy claims which are not valid here too.

He uses a common law trademark which he never informed me about or uses on any of his other marketing materials. The Lanham Act when applying to common law trademarks (versus federal registered trademarks) only addresses claims of "Unfair Competition." I have never competed with him nor have I used the disputed domain name for my own business interests. Another invalid cliam.

This guy is bullying me because he has significant cash reserves and refuses to negotiate a fair business settlement outside of court.

For you other web designers, be very careful. The Lanham Act permits plaintiffs $100,000 in damages for those (knowing or not) using a domain name with someone's federal registered trade mark. And try looking one up as it is not easy to discover who has registered one. I did not know the Internet was intended as a marketing tool for business entities.

I will keep all you informed as this progresses.

Thanks again and best of luck to you all.

Hey All the best man and hope you win this case !!
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Old 05-08-2009, 07:46 AM Re: Domain Name Dispute
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Well this previous customer now has a new web site. He uses a similar domain name as the one I had provided. It was designed by another devloper which is fine. But his new domain name is also owned by this developer, which is the reason he took me to court for!

And get this, he "Cut and Pasted" all my ad copy / words from the site I had designed for him. This is a clear cut case of "copyright infringement" on his part because I designed his web site as an independent contractor. He never purchased a "transfer of ownership" from me. Now it's time for me to talk with my attorney and see about legally pursuing this blatant "Copyright Infringement".

Last edited by silvertech; 05-08-2009 at 07:47 AM.. Reason: typ0
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