Domain Names for Sale

**browntech** · 09-25-2003, 08:49 PM

There should be a law against cybersquatting. I mean these people pay 8 dollars a year and then charge in excess of 10k to someone who has a legitimate use for the domain.

I'm sick of it

what's fair about this? Absolutely nothing! I think we should find a way to do something about it!

The biggest culprit? www.buydomains.com

I think the general means of filing a class action suit is that someone has to actually purchase something from the company before they can legitimately sue them. Although, I'm sure a judge or jury could see how the bad guy holding onto a domain they have no feasible claim to is hurting the potential business of someone who does have a legitimate use for the domain.

Let's pool together on this one.

**tuffy** · 09-25-2003, 10:12 PM

I have to agree, it is annoying. But I dont think much will be done about it anytime soon. It is completely legal, and it would be very difficult to inforce any law or rule to stop it.

About the only way to stop the use of a url without buying it for a pile of cash would be if the url was the name of your registered business. You could then fight it.

Looks like it will be first come first serve for awhile.

**techwench** · 09-25-2003, 11:26 PM

I agree, it sucks. I wish people could go to jail for it, but unfortunately, tuffy is right. There's nothing illegal about someone beating you to a cool domain name. Now, someone picking up nike.com with the intention of selling it to Nike, that's a different story.

Just curious, though...is there a particular reason for your angst? I mean, is this a personal issue? Or is it just a random rant?

**mworld** · 09-26-2003, 05:41 PM

I mentioned this on NetTalk, only I put forward the idea of burning them at the stake. BuyDomains.com really are a company that need to be squashed. I was kind of shot down although with good reason but still I really do hate those companies.

They are just scamming companies out of money like the people who get patents for stuff they didn't come up with and everyone uses, then go round sueing companies.

BuyDomains.com do purchase their domains purely to sell on to the company that wants it although I don't think they buy it with a specifical company in mind. If they are registering solely for the purpose of selling it on and there is already a company with that name then isn't that illegal?

I have seen them many times on good domains before although I recently noticed them when I went to have a look for http://www.southforest.com and found them sitting on it.

**conkermaniac** · 09-27-2003, 12:30 PM

Hi,

I've moved this thread over to Domain Discussion, since this forum will probably elicit better responses.

I would have to agree with browntech on this issue 100%. I find it extremely annoying how companies spend several thousand bucks sucking up all the good and decent domains as soon as they expire. Then they sell these domains for hundreds or even thousands apiece. They are making a tremendous profit, and it just isn't fair. However, due to the international nature of the Internet, there isn't anything that the United States or any lone country can do. There will always be poor countries willing tooffer refuge to cybersquatters, and these companies will just move their headquarters there to evade the law in their own countries.

Conker

**browntech** · 09-27-2003, 03:48 PM

Buydomains.com is a registrar so they're not even paying to squat on a domain name. I've heard cases where someone has searched if a name was available with them and found it only to come a week later to register that name finding that buydomain has squatted on it.

**techwench** · 09-27-2003, 04:30 PM

OH....now that SUCKS! That's just wrong.

**david** · 09-27-2003, 04:49 PM

I'd heard that one too, and since then have only ever searched with companies I know don't do that (betterwhois.com and 000domains.com are the two I usually use). It makes you wonder whether Verisign with their new catchall domains page will start registering domains with a lot of type-ins and selling them on. They've certainly got the capability now.

**mworld** · 09-28-2003, 04:58 AM

Yeah I would never run a domain search on buydomains.com as I have often thought "what if they are monitoring the domains we are searching for and registering them."

BuyDomains.com are based in the US aren't they (either that or Canada) so at least its not some 3rd world country that nobody can do anything about.

What is the law on registering company names and trademarks?

**david** · 09-28-2003, 11:20 AM

If someone has registered a company name or trademark, you should contact your registrar and/or ICANN and they will look into the matter for you. The Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy gives full details of under what circumstances you may be able to get your domain from one of these companies.

You should remember, though, that the judgements don't always seem to be fair by ICANN, and also that may areas of this are still not decided (is it trademark infringement if you registered ???????sucks.com... or is it freedom of speech?)

**mworld** · 09-28-2003, 01:07 PM

Freedom of speach because ??????sucks.com is not a trademark of the ??????? corporation. However BuyDomains.com are not registering whateversucks.com, they are registering whatever.com which is a trandemark. Although I agree with you about the not always fair decisions. I am sure I read something about "large corporation donations" and the like.

**kris1351** · 10-06-2003, 11:08 AM

It really stinks, but if you do not have a Trademark on a name there isn't much you can do. We have had numerous customers lose their domains due to these guys that grab the pending delete domains. Some registries don't work as hard as Enom or Godaddy to help its customers keep their domains.

**mworld** · 10-06-2003, 11:45 AM

Quote:

It really stinks, but if you do not have a Trademark on a name there isn't much you can do.

True in a sense we cannot legally make them hand the domain over. Although bad publicity can really damage a company.

**mworld** · 10-07-2003, 05:16 PM

I was running some more searches for domains I may like to register I just found BuyDomains.com are also quatting on LegalTalk.com.

They are asking for $2488.00 for it. Would anybody seriously pay that amount of money for a domain with no development what so ever? If anything it would scare people away from visiting it again.

**Metallica.tv** · 04-15-2004, 05:10 AM

Couldn't this squatting thing work the other way? I mean lets say you wanted to start a web hosting company and BuyDomains is sitting on HostMagic.com (or whatever), couldn't you just go and fill out the application for a trademark on Host Magic and lay claim to that domain?? As I understand it, someone technically has trademark rights under "common law" just having used such a name in business, but it doesn't seem to me that BuyDomains would have those rights for what they're doing. So then if all that is true and nobody else was using that name, it would seem correct that you could get "your" domain back.

Any thoughts....

**mworld** · 04-15-2004, 06:03 AM

That was my inital understanding although it would require going through ICANN's dispute process which if it takes as much time as the legal system does and I am guessing it will, there will be a rather long wait until the domain is handed over.

**chachi** · 04-22-2004, 07:06 PM

Metallica, I think you would have a good shot at it if you 1) Built a real business with that name and 2) Trademarked it or Registered it within your state (the latter being easier). I have had discussions with this with my attorney, a few years back, and he seemed confident that we could make it happen. I fell prey to someone at a free dynamic DNS company about 7 years ago. It was going to be our first online venture. I tried to register a domain name via their form, but guess what? It didn't work. When I called an ISP to do it the next day, hey it was registered. That was fun. But, (and I know I will probably take some heat for this) I can respect that people are "squatting" on names. I am sure plenty of us here have domain names that we are not using right now, but that we have visions for. I know I do. I look at domain names as real estate. If someone buys the house down the street before you do, then it is not their fault. You may not like how they painted it, didn't landscape it or whatever. The bottom line is you were free to pursue it as were they, and they took action first.

MWorld, to answer your question about how much someone would pay....I sold testyourself.com to someone for 12k about 5 years ago. I thought they were out of their mind. I should have stuck with my plans as I think we would have made a fortune doing IQ tests and the like on that domain...which is what we were planning. But, we figured that this guy was insane and we should "take the money and run". FYI, they never put a site up.

**SymbioticDesign** · 07:15 PM

CyberSquatting is a crime. Domain Speculating is good business sense.

What's the difference?

CyberSquatting has to do with registering a current Trademark as a Domain in order to hold it for ransom to the Trademark holder. More info is here: http://www.nolo.com/lawcenter/ency/a...6E6632A2FA0CB2

Domain Speculating is coming up with a Domain Name based on the speculation that it will be worth something. This is actually good business practice for anyone who is interested in starting a business or a brand.

No, you can NOT register a Trademark and then sue for the Domain Name. Your lawyer may think he can, but I bet I beat him and I won't even get a lawyer. If the Domain Name is registered first, any claims to a previously registered Domain Name based on a new trademark are kind of idiotic. It simply has to do with who owned what first.

I do Domain Speculating. It's a necessary part of my business. I have allot of sites that I want to develop. Coming up with a decent Domain Name is tricky. I will register a name I like. I have to reserve it well in advance just to make plans for branding concerns, and to make sure that it's actually available when I am ready.

Along the way I decide I like another another Domain better. I register it. But I don't delete the other Domain Name record. I keep it an sit on it as if it were an investment. Someone may want to buy it from me. Someone may want to buy my better Domain Name for more than it's worth to me, so that at least I have the second choice left to fall back on.

Don't get me wrong, I do not like CyberSquatters. While I am a web designer/developer, I have to collect names that I think will be good investments for my (and others', including current and future clientele's) businesses. But to register an existing Trademark to hold it up for ransom is wrong.

I own a Trademark and will be going after a guy who registered the Domain. He is Cybersquatting, plain and simple. I had the Trademark first, he thought he'd capitalize on it. I hate cybersquatters, too.

There are all sorts of cybersquatting practices.

JoeCartoon.com became popular so a cybersquatter registered CartoonJoe.com, JoeCarton.com, and a myriad of dirivative and typo Domains on the Joe Cartoon theme. He was found guilty of cybersquatting because he was using these Domains based on the strength of the original to self profit.

Hotmail.com expired at one time. Faced with Microsoft's birage of lawyers, the guy gave up the Domain happily.

MikeRoweSoft.com was a site owned by Mike Rowe who wanted to setup a web design and development business. Because this Domain was so phonetically the same as Microsoft.com, even though he could have won in any court (he afterall, has the right to use his name), he gave it up for an XBox and a year of forum hosting on Windows servers and some other stuff. He could have done much better, actually. But he didn't have the might to fight MS, he was only 18 and needed to think about college.

Trademarks and Business Names are usually big no-no's. Even phonetic similars to Trademarks can be challenged. For instance, MyCrowsSoft.com (My Crow's Soft), would be phonetically similar to Microsoft (I think they might hold it for this reason), and could be a target for legal action.

Usually big no-no's... so what are the exceptions?

MicrosoftSucks.com is different. It embraces free speech.

ApacheWebmasters.com is intended to be a site and/or forum in support of the Open Source Apache Software that runs most webservers on the internet.

ShelbyViper.com is a rare car and the Domain is intended for a car club promoting Shelby Vipers (which are already a collector's item).

Imagine my greif, every noun, verb and almost every adjective in the English dictionary is registered. I looked for a year. Finally, I found Worthful.com. It's archaic (which is why it was probably still available), but very brandable. I've already Trademarked and am developing the site.

Adverbs (amazingly.com) and the like are worthless. So now you have to either make up a brand or use two words together. As the better names get grabbed, it WILL infuriate others looking for a brand to identify with. Which is where, IF you must start with a .com, the premium market comes to play. Or you can hire a branding pro (hand in the air) to come up with a name for you.

Almost every good "photo" or "photography" gallery Domain is gone. I grabbed:

ImageMorgue.com
ImagesMorgue.com
MorgueImage.com
MorgueImages.com

I would only use one to market, brand and promote, but by registering all of these, I prevent cybersquatting and redirect lost (misintrepretted) traffic back to the main Domain. If I couldn't get all of these, the Domain and the brand name would be pretty worthless.

**Chilipal** · 04-27-2004, 06:10 PM

I agree Symbiotic.
Furthermore, all this aggression should be focused on companies like Verisign who are trying to monopolize the secondary domain industry with WLS. Buydomains is one of the biggest proponents of Verisign's plans.

**SymbioticDesign** · 04-27-2004, 07:06 PM

I think we can also blame ICANN. They were supposed to introduce a myriad of new Top Level Domain Extensions. I know .xxx may be offered with a couple of other Sponsored TLDs in the near future, but Sponsored Top Level Domains (sTLDs) are under the control of a private company that does not have to answer to ICANN. I personally feel that .xxx Domains should be under the control of ICANN, even though ICANN is a pretty poor excuse for a governing body of TLDs. The only new generic (generic as in not a country code specific TLD) TLDs which have been offered are .biz and .info.

.info seems to be doing well. .biz seems to be lolligaging. But I honestly wanted a .art TLD.

Nevertheless, .com is still the pemium name in the USA. However, .US Domains are gaining support. .US is a favorable alternative extension for a US company. .info Domains do well in Europe.

.com is the favored Domain extension only because the public sees it that way. It is favored in the US as well as in China (the Chinese perfer .com over .cn extensions). But this is not the case everywhere. .DE is the best choice for a German Domain and the Deutsch do look for .DE extensions, first.

.US could have been the best Domain for Americans, but it wasn't publicly available at first and then when they started selling it they were charging people a fortune for the registrations. Now you can get a .US Domain for $5.00 which has registrations for this TLD up quite a bit.

Certainly the most common registered Domain is .com, but .net and .org are still considered great cyber realestate. And .US registrations are up and peopleare starting to gobble these names up as well.

But in the end it doesn't matter your Domain (as long as it is not a proprietary Domain) as long as you can manage a great website. Content is King.