eCommerce Tycoon

**SasyLou** · 09-29-2007, 05:22 AM

My father in law owns a shop that does reasonably well and on this basis decided to have a website...that sold the same stuff as the shop.

A web design company approached him and they all agreed.... the website is now finished according to the designers but the be quite blunt I think its CRAP.
We also have a content management system as we wanted the stock to be current.

the shopping cart does not work properly.. and just a load of little things that look crap or dont work.

The web designers have offered us a management contract for a gross profit perecentage (25%) once they get us suitably placed ( top 10 google). I dont trust or like any of them .... boss reminds me of a pushy double glazzing saleman and the programmer installs no confidence in me.

Basically I am not happy and as I am going to be the one running this business thats not good... If i decided and said thats enough designers you done your job thank you and goodbye..... where do I stand... Can i get another programmer/designer to correct faults... do I get everything...programs/ coding/ domain details from original designers.

Please help as this website is now live and accepting orders.....

Many thanks
Sara

**ADAM Web Design** · 01:04 PM

First of all, they can't place you 'top 10 in Google'. No one, no one, NO one can guarantee rankings whatsoever.

http://www.google.com/support/webmas...n&answer=35291

Second, what's the site in question? I'm not interested in fixing it (not taking on new business), but I would like to help you out by figuring out what's wrong with it (chances are there are things that you might not have seen that we as web geeks do.)

NOTE: none of this is your fault, from the sounds of it. This is something we hear all the time in here. So don't feel bad or stupid or anything. This is the industry's fault, not yours.

**blue-dreamer** · 09-29-2007, 01:15 PM

Can you post the url of the site site we can make some recommendations?

**seo01071982** · 09-29-2007, 02:27 PM

Hello SARA,
I think my team can help you.
I need to request you that, please jot down what all you wanna change.
Then only we will be able top qoute you about time and price.
For your info

We hold following skills: Languages :XML, ASP, CGI-Perl,PHP, ASP.net, Java Script, VB Script, Delphi, Oracle, C, C++, Visual Basic, Visual C++; Server Side : XML, JSP, Java, J2EE, CGI-Perl, .Net Framework; Databases : MS-SQL 2000, MySQL, MS-Access; Designing : Adobe Photoshop, Image Ready, Flash, Dream weaver MX, AJAX E-Commerce : Payment Gateway Integration - Card Service International, Link Point, Pay Pal, Authorize.net, 2Checkout etc. I guarantee you the quality work within the stipulated time and budget.
Thanks
SEO

Quote:

Originally Posted by SasyLou

My father in law owns a shop that does reasonably well and on this basis decided to have a website...that sold the same stuff as the shop.

A web design company approached him and they all agreed.... the website is now finished according to the designers but the be quite blunt I think its CRAP.
We also have a content management system as we wanted the stock to be current.

the shopping cart does not work properly.. and just a load of little things that look crap or dont work.

The web designers have offered us a management contract for a gross profit perecentage (25%) once they get us suitably placed ( top 10 google). I dont trust or like any of them .... boss reminds me of a pushy double glazzing saleman and the programmer installs no confidence in me.

Basically I am not happy and as I am going to be the one running this business thats not good... If i decided and said thats enough designers you done your job thank you and goodbye..... where do I stand... Can i get another programmer/designer to correct faults... do I get everything...programs/ coding/ domain details from original designers.

Please help as this website is now live and accepting orders.....

Many thanks
Sara

**ADAM Web Design** · 09-29-2007, 03:21 PM

That was an utterly ridiculous answer to the question, seo01071982.

1) A good SEO or design company will know what to change.
2) A good SEO or design company won't expect a client to do all the work for them.

By the way, to answer your second question, Sara, that would depend on your jurisdiction, but in most cases (e.g. Ontario) intellectual property is retained by the person who commissioned the work (in this case, your father-in-law.) So the rights to all the stuff is yours by law, in all likelihood (but for a more conclusive answer, that's a local-lawyer-type question.)

**Monkey Do** · 09-29-2007, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SasyLou

Basically I am not happy and as I am going to be the one running this business thats not good... If i decided and said thats enough designers you done your job thank you and goodbye..... where do I stand... Can i get another programmer/designer to correct faults... do I get everything...programs/ coding/ domain details from original designers.

Going back a few years now we were in a vaguely similar situation, we didn't rate the company managing our website and we decided to bring it in-house. If you think the web designers might be a cowboy outfit who you wouldn't trust not to bugger things up to spite you then you need to think about gaining control first then shutting them out.

This was the approach that we took, got the skills in house and then locked them out of the server. Bearing in mind that I am talking about a household name here with an (at the time) major agency then from your description of the company in question I'd see if it's feasible to take this approach. For us the catalyst was migrating to a new co-lo server - we got the skills in place in house and once the migration was complete that was the end of that (of course contracts were checked etc. before we did this).

Essentially even if local legislation is on your side do you want to take the risk in allowing your online business to take a hit while you sort out the legal stuff or do you just want to ensure business continuity?

**SasyLou** · 09-29-2007, 07:32 PM

Thanks all for the comments.... as to a link to url.... be warned I have a paranoid husband who thinks if i post web address the designers will find out and cause trouble..

so for his benefit....www.pxuxrxexdxexvxixlxmxexnxtx.com... remove the x's...jeez men

I must apologize he is only part geek.

Thank you for your comments and offers to help analysize the site may i say any advice is greatly appreciated...

I did find a good technology lawyer in the area..( Shropshire..England) so may have to request his sevices at some point.

Thank you

**ADAM Web Design** · 09-30-2007, 12:30 PM

Your husband's right. If the designers check their site stats, it's fairly easy to see who was referred from where. It wouldn't take much for them to cause trouble.

First of all, this is live? As in promoted actively? If so, you've got errors right from the get-go. For starters, the lorem ipsum (really weird Latin) copy on the opening page...that should have something to do with the site. My suspicion is that the designers will "SEO" some keyword-stuffed pile of crap in there.

Next: the theme changer. This is an okay idea...I guess. But almost no one will find it (I did by accident).

Next: the product boxes. You can't have boxes of a fixed size like that on the opening page, since people resize their text and in the three times I've loaded the page, the text has spilled under the "Details" link at least twice.

Next: your images. Images should always have width and height attributes set on them (so that the browser knows how big they are and can designate a space accordingly.)

Next: the "Prev" and "Next" links don't really do anything on the individual product pages.

Next: the descriptions of the products all seem the same. From a marketing standpoint, this is a double whammy since 1) it creates duplicate content (bad for search engines) and 2) since it doesn't distinguish any of the products.

It seems that there are different sizes to the products (the T-shirts in particular) but it's not reflected in the descriptions. Is that the case?

I tried ordering 7 pairs of Gothic Gloves (well...adding them to the cart) and was told that you currently don't have enough of this item in stock. If you don't have enough of the item in stock, then why can I attempt to order that many gloves in the first place?

Also, there shouldn't be a color selector if there's only one color for the product.

Finally, I find the cart to be a tad confusing. This is a case where an excessive use of AJAX (the Javascripty stuff used to make all the effects) will likely kill any chance at conversion.

You were very right to be suspicious, Sara. This site suffers from the same problem many sites do: it looks pretty, but it has some serious problems.

**usearchme** · 03:39 PM

Hi there

I agree with you about the cart, i had a play with it and it wasnt long before i got confused, dunno why the log in screen is bottom left either, thats a strange place to put it.

Its a shame you have got so many problems, as its a very nice site, unfortunatly you only tend to pick up on these problems, when you have started using the site for a little time and all the bugs start appearing.

I have had lots of people do sites for me in the past, from my experiance there are always things that go wrong, and I usually end up going back several times to the designers after they reckon its all finished, as often quality assurance if overlooked by some compaines.

It can be a frustrating process going back and forth, have you gone back to them and told them your not happy ? I would try to talk to them calmly before threatning anything legal, give the chance to correct the problems, but make it very clear ur not happy lol !

Woc

**crazkanuk** · 09-30-2007, 05:57 PM

The question I always ask whenever I consult with eCommerce and am presented with this type of situation is, do you have a good lawyer.

No, nobody can guarantee you a top 10 google rank. They could get you a rank in the top 10 in Google for your website name quite easily, with very little work. If I were to proceed with any type of contract like this, I would look at, maybe, 15% and I would look for a couple of things.

1) They handle all management of the website.
2) Content changes (ie product stock, description) are handled within 24 hours
3) Any critical error which is stopping the site from accepting orders is handled within 24 hours
4) Any other error will be handled within the month
5) They will guarantee a top 20 ranking in Google for a list of 20 keywords, provided by the vendor, for 9 of the 12 months for the year.

Number 5 is a biggie. The more keywords you can negotiate, the better. I would use a tool like inventory.overture.com to determine what keywords are getting searched the most on a monthly basis.

If they can deliver on the contract items above, then you are looking at a successful website. I think that, if you were to get these guarantees anywhere else, it might cost in the region of $15,000 a year, so if the site can do $100,000 annually then it will be of benefit to them, and you really don't mind paying them 15%.

Anytime a percentage is given to a web developer for maintaining the site, I cringe. Like I said, make sure that you get a lawyer to look over the contract. Also, make sure you can get out of the contract if they fail to deliver on any of the contract items. You need to make sure that the contract doesn't favor the web developer. I mean if they have confidence they can help you then they will anyway, but if they are scammers then they probably won't.

**blue-dreamer** · 09-30-2007, 07:04 PM

I pretty much agree with everything that's already been said.

Initially I was expecting the site to be of poor quality but the design and coding are very good, albeit one or two opportunities fro improvement as Adam pointed out - but these aren't your main concern.

Personally I found the Add to cart routine very strange and disorientating, when you click to add an item the page moves (presumably to highlight the minicart). And when going to the checkout stage I expected to go to a different page to add my details - as it was I got the checkout pages opened within the current page - a tad confusing initially and will possibly be a cause of abandoned orders in the future .

With ecommerce sites the rule of thumb is KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid - make it easy for people to use your site and make purchases, the more barriers you put in their way the less you will sell. Having flashy on-page AJAX effects is all well and good but is likely to cause a lot of confusion, and usability issues.

"Just because you can use fancy technology doesn't mean you should"

If this was my shop I'd be wanting checkout on separate pages!

**SasyLou** · 10-01-2007, 10:29 AM

thanks all for comments.... my father in law has now been on the phone and the main guy at the web design is not a happy bunny by the sounds of it... wants to know all problems....of course he does he wants his money.... he did offer my father in law a refund,, which he said ok to.... the guy did some serious back pedalling at this point promising all sorts.....you have all put me at a little more peace but have raised some issues...which is good.... A BIG Thanks to all

**pubdomains.com** · 10-01-2007, 10:33 AM

Never seen something like this before ... oscommerce modified beyond recognition. Got error when i clicked on checkout.. and it went into infinite loop doing things which it thought were important. Mutiny folks aren't doing a good job ... checkout default carts on oscommerce forums, much better shops selling jewelery with rather sleek and easy designs.

Cheers
GS

**SasyLou** · 10-09-2007, 04:20 PM

Hi folks just to let you know website designers are trying to fix errors/ problems, but still not happy with them. they offered us a rapid seo thing contract and because we said we wouldn't sign it on the advice of lawyer. they are now having a hissy fit and thrown their dummy out of the pram... my father in law not allowed to talk to them only my husband...basically they gave us 3 options

1 they finish corrections and pay an extra £4000 and we go our separate ways
2 switch it off and they keep all stuff and domain.
3 we sign contract as is.

we told them give us all coding and domain as it stands now and we call it quits. showed him projections for profits and he started to change his tune... but to be honest I want rid of them, i don't trust them now, I just want what we paid for and then we will have to get someone to put it right.

Anyway Thank you all for your comments, your advice and your time

Many thanks

Sara

**ADAM Web Design** · 10-09-2007, 05:33 PM

LMAO! I don't know your father-in-law, but I like him already.

There's nothing more validating than being told you're not allowed to speak to someone because "you're too argumentative" or "you're too inciteful". That means "hey, you're right, but we're too stupid to know how to deal with you, so we're gonna deal with the person we perceive to be weakest." Tell your father-in-law not to be pissed off about it, if he is. Yes, it's personal, but it's also not his fault.

Going back to my earlier comment, #2 may not apply. In Ontario, any work signed off on is the property of the person/company who commissioned it. Check with your lawyer to see if that's the case in England. If you can prove that, they'd have to surrender it...which more or less makes 3 your option anyway (which would be the one I'd pick.)

As far as 1 goes, if they knew the corrections would have to be made, why didn't they do things right the first time? Nuts to 1. Don't give 'em any more than you have to.

**SasyLou** · 10-09-2007, 06:07 PM

That the best laugh I have had in ages.

I have now got my mother-in law on side (she who MUST be obeyed, otherwise you get a smack round the back of the head type LOL), and we are both adamant that we want rid of this company and want nothing whatsoever to do with them ever again. Only trouble is we have now got to try and find someone else to fix and host the website....where do we start and mainly can we trust them..did we just have a bad experience, how do we know we are getting it right this next time.... and we are going to simplify some of the website....got my own way...

(thanks to Blue-Dreamer)

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue-dreamer

With ecommerce sites the rule of thumb is KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid -

**ADAM Web Design** · 10-09-2007, 08:32 PM

Now that's a good question, Sara. The problem with it is that it has no one set answer.

A few general things to look for:

1) A straight shooter. I don't care what anyone says, there's no substitute for a straight shooter, no matter how much they piss you off. (I get the feeling the father-in-law would want that too.)

2) Someone who can lay you out a concrete plan and stick to it, but will also be able to allow for adjustments (no e-commerce site is 100% perfect, and they can all be improved...except the ones I've built, of course.

)

3) Someone who understands what blue-dreamer is talking about. KISS really does apply here. (If I were you, I'd be looking over at him.)

4) Someone who has a rep from other webmasters for being the real deal. You won't ever find a 100% positive rep for anyone of note, because there's a lot of jealousy and stupidity (not to mention clique mentality) that exists within web design, but you should generally get a good vibe from other webmasters (especially those that are clued in.)

**SasyLou** · 10-10-2007, 12:00 PM

thanks for the advice...

Today we had a rather nasty email from designers which we passed on to lawyers. They have now passed this on to litigation department.....I think all bonds with designers should now be cut permanently.

Just wanted to say both my husband, my father-in-law and i really appreciate your comments and advice

**ADAM Web Design** · 10-10-2007, 12:11 PM

No problem. Good luck to you in your battle! Sorry this went down.

**chrishirst** · 10-10-2007, 02:33 PM

Typical!
Register the domain in their name so they can hold you to ransom should things like this happen. So if you part company with them you lose the website and business it brings
It is absolutely the worst kind of shady business practice going in the web design world. Personally you should name and shame them, let some of their other clients and potential clients know what they are dealing with.