eCommerce Tycoon

**dewamaru** · 03-22-2008, 12:12 PM

hi, i am new to this website and this is my first time ever making a website, but i am willing to learn how to and spend as much time as i need for it, but i have a problem that has gotten in the way.
to start, my reasons for making a website was to make some money for college through ads and through donations via paypal. i planned on making money by distributing free music sheets, which will hopefully give some reasons for people wanting to donate to me and come to my website.
the way i plan to make music sheets is by converting midi files into music sheets, and then after some adjustments to the music sheet, give them out on my website. is doing this legal?

since i am only 17, i dont want to risk getting sued or sent to jail because of any stupid act and end up ruining the rest of my life for my actions. i want to stay as legal as possible, but need find more ways to make money other than scholarships and a job. i though by making this website, i could make some money while still signing up for scholarships and doing something that i love, which is music, is a good idea, but this legal/illegal question is the only thing stopping me

. i tried searching google and looking around for my answer, but wanted to ask proffessionals themselves to make sure that what i am doing is allowed.
so please tell me if what i am doing is legal or not, and please give me proffessional support for your answers. i want to know if any of my processes are illegal. and i apologize if this is the wrong place to place my question. because this is related to money, i thought it would be appropriate, and i do not know if there is a section in this forum for legal/illegal issues. thank you in advance and your answers will be very helpful. any help on making a website would be helpful as well. thank you!

**mork29** · 03-22-2008, 01:06 PM

This is an excellent question. More than likely what you are talking about doing is illegal. However, it would not be a criminal action, it would be a civil action that somebody could take against you. Distributing somebody elses music (even though you transcribed it to sheet music yourself) will likely be seen as copyright infringement. Even if there are legal ways to do it, that music is protected by huge giant lawyer filled groups like the RIAA. If they went after you, you simply won't have the money to defend yourself, and you would have no choice but to settle out of court. That would still likely cost you thousands of dollars and would get your site shut down.

However, there are alternatives. You could do the same thing for music that is either in the public domain (really old music) or music published under certain versions of the creative commons license.

If you wanted a site like this to be popular, use those alternative sources for sheet music, and make sure you redistribute them under a compatible license. You could also allow your users to submit there own sheet music, and now you would be less liable if they were to upload protected sheet music. I'd also recommend having a forum or other area for discussion. Turn your site into a community driven one, and you'll probably get alot of return visitors. Music people love community stuff.

If you plan on using a CMS, drupal offers a specific plugin that helps you integrate guitar tablature into your site (it may support all types of sheet music, this isn't really something I know alot about).

The short answer is, if it's even possible that it might be copyright infringement, DON'T DO IT! As a college student you don't have the money to even have a chance of defending yourself if there claim has even the smallest legitamacy. Now, if you have properly protected yourself and somebody sues you without cause, you could probably get an attorney cheap, and then try and get the case dismissed with prejudice (this means they have to reimburse you for your time, court fees, attorney fees, etc..)

One final point. Put up an example DMCA takedown notice or form that people can use to make complaints about any user submitted content. This means that if somebody thinks your user uploaded something that they have a copyright for, they can simply fill out the form, and you can take down the offending material. If you are willing to play ball with people like that, it gives them a reason to avoid the difficulty of court/legal action. Just google for "Example DMCA takedown notice" and you'll probably get hundreds of good results. Best of luck

**dewamaru** · 03-22-2008, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mork29

This is an excellent question. More than likely what you are talking about doing is illegal. However, it would not be a criminal action, it would be a civil action that somebody could take against you. Distributing somebody elses music (even though you transcribed it to sheet music yourself) will likely be seen as copyright infringement. Even if there are legal ways to do it, that music is protected by huge giant lawyer filled groups like the RIAA. If they went after you, you simply won't have the money to defend yourself, and you would have no choice but to settle out of court. That would still likely cost you thousands of dollars and would get your site shut down.

However, there are alternatives. You could do the same thing for music that is either in the public domain (really old music) or music published under certain versions of the creative commons license.

If you wanted a site like this to be popular, use those alternative sources for sheet music, and make sure you redistribute them under a compatible license. You could also allow your users to submit there own sheet music, and now you would be less liable if they were to upload protected sheet music. I'd also recommend having a forum or other area for discussion. Turn your site into a community driven one, and you'll probably get alot of return visitors. Music people love community stuff.

If you plan on using a CMS, drupal offers a specific plugin that helps you integrate guitar tablature into your site (it may support all types of sheet music, this isn't really something I know alot about).

The short answer is, if it's even possible that it might be copyright infringement, DON'T DO IT! As a college student you don't have the money to even have a chance of defending yourself if there claim has even the smallest legitamacy. Now, if you have properly protected yourself and somebody sues you without cause, you could probably get an attorney cheap, and then try and get the case dismissed with prejudice (this means they have to reimburse you for your time, court fees, attorney fees, etc..)

One final point. Put up an example DMCA takedown notice or form that people can use to make complaints about any user submitted content. This means that if somebody thinks your user uploaded something that they have a copyright for, they can simply fill out the form, and you can take down the offending material. If you are willing to play ball with people like that, it gives them a reason to avoid the difficulty of court/legal action. Just google for "Example DMCA takedown notice" and you'll probably get hundreds of good results. Best of luck

thank you very much for your information! i found it to be very useful and this gives me something to research on before i create my website. i will look up more on this, but the DMCA seems like something i could use. i really appreciate your help, and i will keep in mind everything you told.(going to court is such a scary thought).

i am still a little unsure about how copyrighted music sheet works though. i am unsure what exactly makes a music sheet illegal. does copying the title make it illegal? or does copying the notes themselves illegal? I know there must be something that must be illegal about having the music sheet there because then many other people would have done this already.

it is true i have seen many websites that destribute free music sheets, but how are they able to do that? they contain music sheets of pretty recent music, why dont they get sued? and another question is if the midi isnt copyrighted but the song is, if i convert that midi to music sheet, couldnt that be legal because im not changing copyrighted material?

sorry for all my questions, i just want to make sure i have seen every possible outcome before i act.

**mork29** · 03-23-2008, 10:52 AM

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure if sheet music for a copyrighted song is illegal or not. "Derived Works" start to enter a very gray area in copyright usually.

**dewamaru** · 03-23-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mork29

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure if sheet music for a copyrighted song is illegal or not. "Derived Works" start to enter a very gray area in copyright usually.

thank you very much, your reply helped loads in my search!!! i looked up derived work and found that it is indeed illegal for me to destribute music sheets based on copyrighted music sheets.although this was a big disappointment because i thought my plans were ruined, i read further and found that i may still be able to go through with my website. as long as i use my website for nonprofit, educational purposes, then i am liable to declare that im using it for fair use, which is a doctrine in the us copyright laws stating that i am allowed to use derived work without the copyright owners permission as long as it is educational and nonprofit. so thank you, i have learned alot from your help and you led me in the right direction on how to approach this.

i dont know if having my paypal on the website will make my website illegal because i am making profit from the derived work, but i am not forcing people to pay,but to just donate if they want to help support me to go to college, but i am unsure on that and have to look further into that question now ( lol i never stop with the questions) but i dont think having ads on my website is illegal because its totally unrelated to the music sheets i upload onto my website, so i wouldnt be making money from the work, so that is still something i plan on doing. so once again thank you very much you gave me more help than anyone else has on this subject ( i asked around different places) so thanks again!

**nanimo** · 03-24-2008, 09:30 AM

Want an advice? Just give it up...

**Finney** · 03-24-2008, 05:53 PM

To get around most copyright laws etc. most people let members upload the files, being music, movies, software or anything. Thats how alot of warez websites get away with copyright laws. Its complicated but you are fine doing it that way but if the actual company (in your position being the record label etc.) contact you then you have to remove the content..

I spose this is a sligh way of get around it and doing things but it works, hope it at least helps you a bit.

Regards,
Finney

**willcode4beer** · 03-25-2008, 01:10 PM

Could I suggest an alternative business model?

Instead of hosting sheet music generated from midi's, sell your software that performs the task. Though users may use it for quasi-legal reasons, you will be safe. Besides, there are many amateur musicians, professors, and instructors who would find such a tool useful.

Becoming an ISV, will likely be much more profitable than collecting paypal donations.

**tripy** · 03-25-2008, 04:17 PM

Quote:

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure if sheet music for a copyrighted song is illegal or not

As far as I know, it's not the sheet that is copyrighted, it's the melody written over it.

It's the same process that make some musicians that uses sampled sound of older tracks paying thousands of dollars to be allowed to use that sample in their tracks.

You are not allowed to make money, in almost any ways, over something that has been done by someone else.

Worst, I even remember having read a comment by a RIAA official saying that even if the artist was not affiliated to the RIAA, the RIAA could still go after peoples distributing that music via peer to peer, arguing that distributing the music that way would be a hint that the person was a pirate.
Take this with a lot of suspicion though, as I read it on slashdot, which is not known to be very neutral when it comes to the RIAA / IP / Licensing domain...

**Azazel28** · 03-27-2008, 05:41 AM

From my knowledge of music (I played the sax for 12 years) it is actually the notes on the page that are copyrighted. You can not repeat those same notes in that order and that speed, etc.