eCommerce Tycoon

**limey** · 05-07-2007, 01:53 PM

Hi,
I am a novice webdesigner and am just starting out on my own. I have designed this website and I would like your opinion on how much you would charge a client if you designed this site yourself for them. Now, this is a really basic site with basic coding and graphics and I know some people charge by the hour and some by the project but it would really help me if I could compare my ideas about cost to those of others. Thanks in advance for your time. Here is the site;
http://www.johncocurullo.com
Thanks.

**ablaye** · 05-08-2007, 03:16 PM

Well, since this site is just plain HTML and very basic with not many graphics, I would charge no more than $100.

**limey** · 05-08-2007, 08:17 PM

I understand that this site is basic with very little graphics but don't you think that $100 is rather low considering there are still 15 pages of HTML with style sheets and a few scripts. I was thinking in the region of $300 - $500 even if it does take an experienced designer a few hours.

**cutiger95** · 05-08-2007, 09:59 PM

Limey, sorry bud but I have to agree with ablaye on this one. That site is worth about $100. Not much more.

**Kirtan** · 05-08-2007, 11:41 PM

Site is worth for $100 when you built it for another web master.
Site is worth for $300 when you built it for client.

**vangogh** · 05-09-2007, 01:27 AM

limey I can't give you a direct answer since if a client approached me for a site that's not the site they would get. My fee would be based more on the requirements of the job and the site I would give. But I'll try and help by describing my process for coming up with a price.

Since you're new it might be more important at first just to design and build some sites so you can have a portfolio of sites to show. Do your best to price the job based on how much time you think it will take to complete.

Always keep track of how much time you really do spend on projects and before long you'll have a good idea of how long it really takes you.

What I do is talk to a client first and find out what it is they want. Ask them a lot of questions since they often want more than they first say.

Based on what they want estimate your time and multiply by what you want as an hourly rate. The rate depends on your own experience and what others in your are charge. You can call other designers in your area that look like they have similar experience to you and ask what they would charge for a small site to get an idea of the going rates. Not everyone will answer, but some might.

Rates can be across the board though. You can probably find people willing to do the work for $10/hr and you can find others who will charge at least $150/hr for the same work. A lot depends on how much the person needs the work.

A couple of things to consider are that even when you get good at estimating your time a project will likely take longer than you think. I'll often estimate time and then add an extra 10% to 20% based on whether or not I think the client is going to make a lot of little requests. Those little requests all add up.

Sometimes I'll base the price on what I think the client will pay. I don't mean that I'll try to get more from a client, but say I think a job is worth $500 and I get the feeling the client won't pay more than $350. If it's been a slow week or two I might lower my rate just to pick up the work and help out the client.

Another reason I might lower my price is if I think the client will be bringing in a lot of repeat work or if I think they could potentially recommend me to a lot of other clients. I'll give someone a break on the price if I think I'll get enough work in the future to justify that price break. It's basically a form of marketing.

I know it's hard when you're starting out to try to figure out how much to charge. In the beginning having the sites in your portfolio is probably more important so don't agonize over the price. Get the job and keep track the time you spend. Each job will get a little easier to price if you track your time.

**willcode4beer** · 05-09-2007, 10:25 AM

Give vangogh's coment a good read.
Something else to consider, you aren't being paid for all that time spent negotiating, getting requirements (asking the customer lots of questions), and coming up with the estimate.
This is a major reason that experienced developers/designers don't take small jobs. Often, more time can be spent in the administrative (read unpaid) tasks than in the actual development. Others will factor that into their estimate. This can make a small project look expensive.
Lets take this project apart a little (note, numbers are just made up)
2 hours - Discovering the customers requirements
4 hours - putting together a very basic design for an estimate
2 hours - looking for good images from your Corbis library
4 hours - putting together a good design/layout
15 hours - 1hr/page
4 hours - customer acceptance, system admin (getting it up on the customer's server, testing, etc...
Note, time can get eaten in a lot of other ways as well.
So, that's around 31 hours so far (notice that about half the time is actually spent doing the work).

Now, it's up to you to decide how much your time is worth. $100 is about half of minimum wage. If you want a starting point, many (very) junior web developers start at around $24/hr.
Now, I understand that when you are just starting out that you are probably just trying to get any experience you can. But, be careful that you don't create a future expectation of working for very little.

If you aren't comfortable with asking for what really is a fair price, don't give a blanket estimate (ie. $500 for the site). Break down your estimate, create a detailed list of tasks and the estimated amount of time each will take. Present this to the client. If they can see where the money is going, they are much less likely to have sticker shock.
If you take you car to a mechanic, they shouldn't give an estimate that says $500 to fix you car. They'll give you one that says $50/disks, $100/calipers, $150/labor, etc....

If the client wants to comparison shop, send them to me, I'll quote them $3k for the same thing (and I won't use iframes and tables

)

**limey** · 05-09-2007, 10:48 AM

Thanks alot for your time in replying. The hardest thing for me has been to work out what to charge because I know I cannot charge by the hour because I know I'm going to take so much longer than I should. I appreciate your honest answers.

**willcode4beer** · 05-09-2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by limey

Thanks alot for your time in replying. The hardest thing for me has been to work out what to charge because I know I cannot charge by the hour because I know I'm going to take so much longer than I should. I appreciate your honest answers.

Good comment, this might be a good case for you to take a lead from mechanics.
Most auto mechanics have a guide book to use for labor costs. So, the book might say, 1hr to change an alternator. A good mechanic can make more because they work in less time, a less experienced one makes less because he takes more time. The customer sees a more consistent bill.

Just base your estimate on what you think is fair. Be fair to the customer and fair to yourself.

**vangogh** · 05-09-2007, 07:38 PM

Good points Paul. All those extra administrative tasks are part of why I add the extra percentage in. I know it's going to happen and you're right on a small job they can end up taking more time than the actual project takes.

I'm experiencing that at the moment with a client, but I knew it would be that way going in and the work now is mainly to get what I think will be a loyal client providing a lot more work in the coming years.

It is important though not to keep pricing yourself too low. The people you don't charge much are going to recommend you in part based on the low price and it will become expected.

I also want to make clear that I don't charge the client per hour. I just use an hourly rate in calculating the cost of the project. The client gets a price for the work and not for the time. I might charge an hourly rate to make small modifications to a site, but not for the the original design and development.

limey be fair to yourself and to your client. It's not easy knowing what to charge at first, but do your best and keep track of your time. It will get easier with a few sites under your belt.

**seolman** · 05-09-2007, 11:31 PM

Excellent points from vangogh and the beer man.

Couple more things to consider: when you are just starting out you sometimes have to sell for less to get a name established - chalk this up to marketing. Once you have built a few sites you will begin to get some rep and referrals plus several valuable pieces of info:

a) What specific market segment is suited to your work?
b) How much time does it really take you to build a site (ie know your costs)?
c) How much are others selling similar services for IN YOUR MARKET!

Example: if you are the only guy in town who can make something - your price can be higher. If the competition is rife get ready for a lean existence.

Many customers looking for a "brochure" site such as you have built aren't necessarily web savvy and the fact you can sit down with them "face to face" has an intangible value. Yes - they may be able to get the site cheaper on line, but are they really savvy enough to find a qualified provider and transmit their requirements clearly via email or phone?

Another thing - draft an agreement with your client. Be sure you state clearly what you will be providing - so if the customer asks for something 'out of scope' (not included in your proposal) you have recourse to say "that will be an extra charge". State up front your hourly rate for work outside of scope.

Very best in your endeavors.

**limey** · 05-10-2007, 06:53 PM

Thanks again for all of your points. I know I wouldn't feel right in charging a high price just because others do or that I could get away with it. I know my abilities are basic right now and my prices will reflect that. I'm just happy at the moment to get the exposure and build my portfolio.

**dougadam** · 05-11-2007, 10:29 AM

Its all relative to what the customer is willing to pay. Like any business you can go for high end or low end. Personally I prefer high end.