General Discussions

**CSS4Life** · 09-06-2007, 01:47 PM

President Putin has restarted long distance bomber flights recently, particularly as Western relations with the country have deteriorated.

Just a recent headline of many:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6981541.stm

Does anyone think this could grow into the start of a Second Cold War?

**Learning Newbie** · 09-06-2007, 03:14 PM

Russia has been doing a lot of saber rattling lately, but I don't think anyone will let this devolve into a second cold war as long as they supply Europe, and to a lesser degree US, with natural gas. Also they're election is next year, so Bush and Putin will both be kicked out of power. (Even though people fear both countries have turned their back on democracy, and will postpone the election indefinately in the name of national security or terrorism.)

But I do think there's a new Cold War, or maybe a hot one, between Western (mostly Christian - and nothing wrong with that, just stating a fact) society and Islam. After the most recent Democratic Party debate, the Republicans were complaining that not one Democrat said the words "Islamo-Fascist." John McCain wants to bomb Iran more than I want to leave work early, and that's been the international headline for the Republican debates.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying we can stop the violence (make peace) with a flower. 19 Saudi Arabians flew jets into the Twin Towers and Pentagon six years ago. Invading Iraq was a mistake. Perhaps not invading Saudi Arabia was a mistake? I don't know, except to say logic and common sense tell us if we want to retaliate, we should strike out against those that hit us, and not the guy next door.

Then you have the Madrid and London bombings, and this German plot yesterday.

**CSS4Life** · 09-06-2007, 03:47 PM

I find some things so annoying. The cold war finished a over 15 years ago now, technology is progressing at a very exciting rate and health care and life expectancy is generally improving across the world.

However, while all this great progress is being made, many people are using this progress to a backward effect. For example, terrorists use internet propaganda to promote their cause, and their ultimate vision - an authoritarian Islamic world run by dictators, who are against freedom.

Another example - the globalisation of money. While China is attempting to look Western, and in some places it is, in others it's still acting like a Communist state. The government of China is using taxes to buy companies in other countries, to bring more revenue to China. Most countries have turned the Chinese down and simply don't want their money, but here in the UK, the government has welcomed the Chinese cash.

I just hope that we can solve these sorts of problems before they progress, and that the 21st century will be known as a century of progress - advancements in technology, science, health care and the fight against global poverty

**Learning Newbie** · 09-06-2007, 03:58 PM

I think most places welcome Chinese money with open arms. This is the reason why Darfur is still festering, four years on. Thus far there are 200,000+ dead and 3,000,000 displaced. China is doing all kinds of business there, and protecting Sudan from an international peace keeping force in the UN.

Chinese money is welcome all over Africa. They see it as a better alternative to WTO and IMF loans, Western globalization, that come with all kinds of strings attached. To get one of those, you might need to restructure your economy, you need to fight government corruption, all that. The Chinese don't care about pesky little things like human rights. They just want access to oil and other fossil fuels for their economy. It's really sad, but that seems to be the truth.

**CSS4Life** · 09-06-2007, 04:02 PM

I guess this is the way the Western nations were when they were building their empires in Africa and exploiting Africans as slaves. China has woken from her sleep and is doing what we were doing (well Britain, France, Germany, Spain etc.) 100 years ago. That goes for their economy too, although they're doing it all now at a global scale, while we did it at a national scale

**Learning Newbie** · 09-06-2007, 04:31 PM

There's a lot of truth to that. Hitler's plan in World War 2 assumed the rest of the world wouldn't care what he did to the Jews. He was counting on the Allied Powers to look the other way. Please don't confuse this with being anti-American, only pro-fact, but the truth is Hitler looked at what the US government did to the Indians (not from India, but the Native Americans) and what England did to the Boers in Africa, and was shocked that the world said "NO!" when he followed suit. Of course we stopped killing Injuns long before 1940. The world was a much less civilized place in the 1700s.

Also, I read pollution was never as bad as it was in the 1800s. We have different kinds now, but less overall. I don't know if that's true, and I suspect it's only true if you look in a very limited way. But think of the brand new trains that could outrun a horse! They ran on coal, and this is when we started mining with all kinds of acids. That's actually the theory behind the Kyoto Protocol - that developing nations should be allowed to pollute as much as they feel like, since developed nations all did to get where they are today.

**CSS4Life** · 09-06-2007, 04:39 PM

Let's not start the global warming debate again! Haha

**Learning Newbie** · 09-06-2007, 04:44 PM

The Russians are ticked when we tell them how to manage their natural resources. They have what, 11 time zones? To them, it's incomprehensible that they could ever run out. And they say things like "Just because you ruined your environment doesn't give you the right to tell you how to manage ours."

**Aadriyah** · 09-07-2007, 12:36 AM

That's not a good news.... We're all to suffer with the consequences!

**CSS4Life** · 09-07-2007, 05:15 AM

The Russians are past their prime though. They talk big but their technology is now way behind ours - the bombers they are using are at least 15 years old, and often much older. However, if they keep all this up, they may start reinvesting and redeveloping new bombers

It was suggested on the news that all this is just an attempt to try and win the upcoming elections

**Learning Newbie** · 09-07-2007, 12:37 PM

Don't the Russian aircraft still have rivets to hold the metal plates together? I wouldn't worry about that except that they have the bomb, but they've had that as long as I've been alive. I remember how freaked out my parents were, my pops never stopped talking about Sputnik all his life, and was sure he'd burn up in a nuclear annihilation with his son. My hope is if we made it through those dangerous times, we'll pull through this, too.

And you're probably right - once these elections are over and Bush is replaced with someone willing to try diplomacy before cluster bombing, we'll have better prospects for peace. America's president still refuses when called on to declare an end to the Korean War from the 1950s.

**jim1228** · 09-07-2007, 10:20 PM

The "the bomb" is what scares me. Those things are nasty. Molecularly engineered to cause mass death. I hope mankind is smart enough to realize that we are all here for such a short period of time anyways, so what’s the point of making it any shorter. We all should be more worried about mother earth and the sun.

**Sir P** · 09-10-2007, 11:31 AM

the english (me) are indeed in trouble if there was a war here... we sold them all our utilities years ago.... stupid.

**ewomack** · 09-10-2007, 12:01 PM

Unless we can all find a way to play nice and share, the 21st Century could turn into an era of massive resource wars. We're fast facing the end of petroleum with no viable replacement. With so much of the world's major economies completely dependent upon easily accessible and superefficient energy, the world will become a different place when it disappears. And it will, whether 5 or 50 years from now. We need a miracle on this issue to sustain our lifestyles, population levels, and level of progress.

**Cheshire_cat** · 09-10-2007, 12:29 PM

I finally read this thread. I do have to say that if there is a second cold war it will not be from Russia but from China. China, I predict to be the new world power.

“The Bomb” does not scare me, it’s the one who is controlling the bomb that scares me.

**Learning Newbie** · 09-10-2007, 12:32 PM

I don't know what this means, but I agree with Cheshire Cat. That's twice in a row!

**Cheshire_cat** · 09-10-2007, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

I don't know what this means, but I agree with Cheshire Cat. That's twice in a row!

Somewhere today pigs are flying, a conservative and a liberal are agreeing on more than one issue.

It just goes to show you that it’s not that we have parties that disagree on issues, but that they disagree on issues just because the other party agrees with it. We will never get any where as a nation when there is division like that. Me and Newbie should run for office.

**CSS4Life** · 09-10-2007, 02:58 PM

If there is a war with China, then I sadly doubt America stands much of a chance. China's population is 4 times the size, it's already developing at an incredible rate and catching up (how long before it overtakes?) Not only this but the West is becoming increasingly dependent on the East (India and China particularly) as these now produce much of the products we use (China), or provide the support for these products (India).

The USA and the West as a whole is in a slow decline as the world superpowers, while the East is taking over this role