General Discussions

**Gail** · 09-07-2007, 03:45 PM

Well its more of what should i do?

I try to keep my independence as much as possible so i'm never comfortable asking for advice, but friends cant help me with this problem as its an on-line problem so to speak. I received a e-mail today saying that one of our members had used a image from a web site and now there demanding a lot of money or legal action will follow. I'm really upset about this because it wasn't directly my fault. And i don't know what to do or where to turn. I'm up with worry, because i cant afford the amount of money that's being requested. What should i do?

Gail x

**Learning Newbie** · 09-07-2007, 03:54 PM

Have you tried talking reasonably to the guy? I think most people, if you're respectful, reasonable, and polite, but explain the situation from your perspective, will meet you half way.

**CSS4Life** · 09-07-2007, 04:00 PM

You should write something in your terms of service about this to prevent it happening in the future

**Learning Newbie** · 09-07-2007, 04:22 PM

And maybe share some more details so people can give you better advice here, too. I don't know if you can change your TOS - it really depends on the what and the why.

**Gail** · 09-07-2007, 04:44 PM

I have my terms and conditions which state that members should obtain permission from the owners of any protected material, because in reality its impossible to manage all posts and topics. How ever once the the post in question was reported by the owner it was removed promply. This information was passed back to the owner of the image, but they insist that they will take legal action if i dont pay a large sum of money. I think its realy unfair and i am worried sick because i cant do anything more as in co operating and doing as much as i can as soon as i can. The amount they want me to pay will close us down and finish off our community which we have been building for the last 4 years. I dont want my husband to know. As it will be another "My Fault speach"
and i dont think it is really my fault.

Gail x

**Learning Newbie** · 09-07-2007, 04:57 PM

Well it doesn't sound like it's your fault, and I really don't want to tell you what to do about family dynamics. But I wouldn't let your mother or husband give you speeches if you don't want to hear them. Sorry for the unsolicited personal advice. But without knowing much more about the specific situation, it sounds like you might be headed to court, and your family may hear of this anyway. So that's just something to think about. I'll try to keep my mouth shut on stuff you didn't ask about tho.

It sounds like a copyright thing. Your TOS or T&C won't superceed the law and protect you here. Think of it like if I put up a sign over my front door saying "Murder will only be tolerated on the living room and kitchen." The police would kick my head in if anyone honored those terms.

Again, it sounds like things are really not your fault, and it also sounds like you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. If it was me in your shoes I'd start by sending an email with everything you just wrote to the person (you must have their address, right?) who's talking about legal action, be really polite, and explain the situation. Also, be a really good listener, and try to figure out what pushed this person over the edge. I've been in situations where I could sue someone, but I'm a water off the duck's back kind of guy. I think everyone is until the right button gets pushed.

That isn't exactly legal advice, but I think almost everyone the RIAA has sued wound up settling out of court?

**Gail** · 05:53 PM

I've been searching and search the internet for any similar instances of the situation i'm stuck in. And someone mentioned in a topic if the website does not state there own Terms and Conditions including copyright information then permission is not needed? Its only a comment on another forum, and not something ive read on law. I'm really worried now after reading your comments LN. As i say were a community baised forum not a business, and the image was posted in a topic about amazing pictures, it was linked, from the owners web site and not modified in anyway. It had the owners name etc stamped on it, so i seen it as free advertising for the owner. But when we received the complaint we removed the image immediately, we respected the owners wishes. But the owner still want us to pay a huge sum of money to prevent legal action. I am shocked and horrified with this, i feel like closing it all down because of one memebers innocent mistake, and a owner that wants to clean us out by demanding a five thousand dollars. For one image that's outrageous. How can anyone demand such high amount for an innocent mistake. Is there any advice i can use in my favour or is it all over? The owner seems to want blood regardless.

Gail x

**Giselle** · 09-07-2007, 06:48 PM

I have some advice, either go back to your server/hoster and ask for their legal advice or the Attorney General's office in your state. This could be a scam also, but I certainly wouldn't pull my website off the internet.

Now I really could be a bit fuzzy or not completely updated in the legal end of the internet even though I have been online since 1991. I can't see where really the member has done anything wrong, they had the image with the owners name stamped on the image, then the member gave a link back to the website, which you are completely right, a whole lot of free advertising for him/her. What I would do is explain to this party the information has been taken down and apologize and for me that would be it!

I am great for submitting quotes off the net, but I also add the link as to where the information came from, just like your member did. To let people know I didn't write the information and give credit to the one who did. And where does this person come up with $5000? Sounds a little funny to me.....Normally on the internet there is a warning first if it's a legitimate company or even if it's not on the internet, any business. Plus there is another issue here, no one has profited from this, do they have a leg to stand on????

**seolman** · 09-07-2007, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gail

I have my terms and conditions which state that members should obtain permission from the owners of any protected material, because in reality its impossible to manage all posts and topics. How ever once the the post in question was reported by the owner it was removed promply. This information was passed back to the owner of the image, but they insist that they will take legal action if i dont pay a large sum of money. I think its realy unfair and i am worried sick because i cant do anything more as in co operating and doing as much as i can as soon as i can. The amount they want me to pay will close us down and finish off our community which we have been building for the last 4 years. I dont want my husband to know. As it will be another "My Fault speach"
and i dont think it is really my fault.

Gail x

What a bummer.

Sorry to hear about your problem Gail. If your terms and conditions clearly state that you are not responsible for the content posted by individuals using the site you are legally safe but the person who posted the image may have to answer to the group that has the legitimate rights to the photo. I suggest you might want to ask your legal counsel about the following possible actions:

a) Inform the belligerent party they will have to contact you via your attorney from this day forward based on the fact they have threatened legal action (whether you provide them a contact instantly or not this will let them know you refuse to be pushed around and may bring them to their senses).

b) Ask them for their legal address so your attorney can send them legal correspondence related to this matter.

c) Inform them that you deny any responsibility as far as illegal use of their intellectual property based on your site usage disclaimer. The most cooperation they can expect from you is: if they can prove ownership of the image and obtain a court order, you may be willing to turn over the name of the person who posted the image provided your attorney agrees it is the best course of action.

As I mentioned - check with an attorney first, but in my experience, these types love to bully people out of their money when they know they don't have a chance in h*ll of getting anything if they challenge you legally due to the high cost of attorneys fees.

I hope it works out well for you.

**LadynRed** · 09-07-2007, 08:46 PM

Quote:

But the owner still want us to pay a huge sum of money to prevent legal action.

Sounds like extortion/blackmail. The image was removed, they no longer have a complaint, really. If the image had been allowed to stay I could see where they'd have a beef, but it didn't so what grounds do they have for demanding money ??

I can also suggest you try this legal help forum: http://forum.freeadvice.com/
There are a couple of areas there where you can present your problem and they DO have ACTUAL lawyers who participate there. I am a long-standing member there, so I'm familiar with the kind of help you can get.

**Gail** · 09-07-2007, 09:07 PM

Thank you so much for all your advice, today just seemed so grey, i have to go out now, but when i comeback i will check those links as soon as i can. Ive had a quick look and it may be able to help.

I will post with my findings and share with you as you have been so helpful to me.

I hope its just a scam.

Gail x

**ForrestCroce** · 10:15 PM

I'm closing this thread. I hope everyone understands, and I suspect I'll loose a few friends, but it's no coincidence that Gail is from Seattle, Washington; just like I am. The timing, exact dollar amount, nature of Gail's web site and the thread I removed my image from is no coincidence. I sent Mrs Gail an invoice for using one of my photographs and got a very nasty response the day before this was posted.

I spent four months camping in snow and dirt, living out of the back of my car, and gave up a wonderful job in order to do so, for the chance to capture the photo in question. All I've ever asked for is respect for my artistic work, and only one side of a coin is being presented here. As a moderator I really can't go into detail about the ongoing case here or be personal, which means I'm not able to present my side of the story, or paste the unbelievably rude email I received after sending the invoice and notice that I had removed Gail's site's access to my image.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giselle

And where does this person come up with $5000?

Sorry, I'm not going to comment on ongoing legal matters, but that's half the statutory default in copyright violation cases. It's about 1/3 of what it cost me to produce the photo in question. With the financial, emotional, and physical trouble I went to in creating the image, it's not unreasonable to expect people to honor its copyright.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gail

It had the owners name etc stamped on it, so i seen it as free advertising for the owner.

It also had the international copyright symbol stamped on it. And the person who created and owns something typically gets to decide whether they're interested in any particular flavor of free advertising.