General Discussions

**ecsuite** · 09-27-2007, 10:40 AM

i think we can do a lot better in diplomacy and i think that Ahmadinejad came off better than we did.

i think the govt acts like kids sometimes and this guy should be heard and we should form our own opinions, rather than filtered ones and he has some decent arguments

but then i think that region is generally thought of as unstable, thats a hard door to close, and the potential threat to us in the future

**eFingerz** · 09-27-2007, 10:48 AM

no one should have nukes
but me! just playing
but 4 real no one should have a weapon of that caliber!NO ONE!

**Cheshire_cat** · 09-27-2007, 11:05 AM

I think only America should have them.

**Michel Samuel** · 09-27-2007, 11:16 AM

I think if a nation has nuclear weapons...
It needs to shut up. Or get rid of the ones it has before it can say who should or shouldn't own them.

Hypocrites are to be hated by everyone.

**ecsuite** · 09-27-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michel Samuel

I think if a nation has nuclear weapons...
It needs to shut up. Or get rid of the ones it has before it can say who should or shouldn't own them.

Hypocrites are to be hated by everyone.

well, not so long ago (and probably still), they considered america the "Great Satan". once they have the ability to creat the nuclear bomb, they have more leverage and who knows what will change in the next 10 years, and why risk it?

yes, it may not be fair, but nations do what they do not trying to be fair, but to protect their interests. being "fair" can get them wiped out

**CSS4Life** · 09-27-2007, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheshire_cat

I think only America should have them.

No way! No countries, developed or not, should have nuclear weapons or for that matter power. However, I don't want this to move over to a nuclear power debate or anything - that's just my opinion.

At times like this, I find America's swagger going too far.

As a policeman said recently on TV about vicious dogs, "people only have them because they are cowards and can't defend themselves". I think the same goes for nuclear weapons really.

Japan, to name just 1 country, has made it clear it will never possess nuclear weapons in the future. I respect them for that.

**Learning Newbie** · 09-27-2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecsuite

well, not so long ago (and probably still), they considered america the "Great Satan". once they have the ability to creat the nuclear bomb, they have more leverage and who knows what will change in the next 10 years, and why risk it?

Even with President Nutjob (who I'll admit did come off very well, thinks quickly, speaks eloquently - when he's not saying retarded things like there are no gays in Iran) Iran is making great progress. The president who came before him was moving his country radically toward peace with the West - Amadinijad is doing a good job of reversing it all. I would actually visit Iran today if I absolutely had to. In the early 1980s, I would have shot myself to avoid it.

It's true Iran will have far more influence if they develop a nuke. And this is a bad thing. But if there's a silver lining, it may help balance power in the region against Israel's undeclared bomb.

**Learning Newbie** · 09-27-2007, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheshire_cat

I think only America should have them.

Sorry Chesh - I just cannot agree with you here. As much as TV likes to talk about nightmare scenarios where a terrorist explodes a bomb in Chicago, the reality is there has only ever been one country that's used nuclear weapons on human civilians, and large cities at that. This one country who's used nukes to anniliate innocent women and children en masse should absolutely not be the only country to have nukes.

**ultra** · 12:45 PM

it needs only 12 nuclear bombs to finish mankind from this earth ... and we have them in thousands !!!!

and regarding iran ... it has full right to posses what ever they want !!!! if usa uk inida china can have it why not iran !!!!

**CSS4Life** · 09-27-2007, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultra

it needs only 12 nuclear bombs to finish mankind from this earth ... and we have them in thousands !!!!

and regarding iran ... it has full right to posses what ever they want !!!! if usa uk inida china can have it why not iran !!!!

That doesn't make it a good thing. Once a country has joined the nuclear club, and particularly Iran and similar countries like that, they are unlikely to want to leave.

**Michel Samuel** · 09-27-2007, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecsuite

well, not so long ago (and probably still), they considered america the "Great Satan". once they have the ability to creat the nuclear bomb, they have more leverage and who knows what will change in the next 10 years, and why risk it?

yes, it may not be fair, but nations do what they do not trying to be fair, but to protect their interests. being "fair" can get them wiped out

And America is NOT the "Great Satan" ?

Not being anti-american but I really think peope need to stop this garbage
about good vs bad. It all depends on perspective.

We need to go back to focusing on stabilité.

The policeman vs villians was stupide when I had 9 years of age.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

Sorry Chesh - I just cannot agree with you here. As much as TV likes to talk about nightmare scenarios where a terrorist explodes a bomb in Chicago, the reality is there has only ever been one country that's used nuclear weapons on human civilians, and large cities at that. This one country who's used nukes to anniliate innocent women and children en masse should absolutely not be the only country to have nukes.

Nice point.

**Learning Newbie** · 09-27-2007, 02:16 PM

I wish I could argue against "nice point." But it's a historical fact. Somebody will come along and say that had we not dropped atomic weapons on two Japanese cities, many more soldiers would have died in a battle people feared would claim the lives of 1,000,000 or more soldiers. But Japan had already tried to surrender on the one condition that they could keep their emperor, who according to their religion was a God. Before we nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Bombing Japan had far more to do with intimidating Russia than intimidating Japan. If you look to Eastern Europe, the end of World War 2 was more a proxy war between the US and Russia moving strategically to shape the post-war era. The atomic weapons we used against Japan's civilian populace was a stern warning to the USSR.

I would actually still answer "No - America is NOT the Great Satan" even after what I've just said. I understand that you think we're lethargic, and that you want to see more action from us than we're comfortable with - putting that aside because neither of us will change each other's mind - there's a difference between the American People, who are decent and honest and the American Policy that's set by a small minority of the most elite. It does seem Satanic to unleash the ugliest weapon ever seen on men, women, and children. But that was a military decision. There's been talk of nuking Iran's facility at Natanz, and it's widely understood that, like the Satanic actions of the Nazis leading up to and during the war, using an atomic weapon against civilians (or, really, just using it at all) falls under the strong heading of never again.

**ecsuite** · 09-27-2007, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michel Samuel

And America is NOT the "Great Satan" ?

no comment on that one

i think we have made some silly decisions in the past that hurt many people, its hard to defend us

but nonetheless, if we hurt somebody and i know they are angry at us, i would discourage them from getting a weapon that they can us against us, whats fair aside.

**Cheshire_cat** · 09-27-2007, 02:37 PM

Oy vey, I sometimes forget that when just typing no one would be able to pick up on sarcasm. I certainly do not think that America should be the only one to have nuclear weapons, I think that our world as a whole was much safer without them but how far do we take that.

To answer the original question seriously I really don’t think that ANY country should have them, but who is going to enforce that, and further more who is going to be the decider of what country gets what. I don’t think that any country should act as the police world even though America has seemingly assumed that role. I think that the responsibilities lie within the county and their own people.

**Learning Newbie** · 09-27-2007, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lackofthought

That is ridiculous, it is people like you that give Americans a bad name.

Cheshire Cat is someone we're proud of. I think the world and even just the US would be a better place if we had more like him. Chesh understands why you think what he said is ridiculous and wrote it as a joke to make a larger point.

**Michel Samuel** · 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

who are decent and honest and the American Policy that's set by a small minority of the most elite. It does seem Satanic to unleash the ugliest weapon ever seen on men, women, and children. But that was a military decision. .

I'm not calling you evil or satan.
What I'm saying is that it's a matter of perspective.
But on doing something.... There are many dead monks today.
One nation's demon is another nation's christ.

You quoted 1984...
So now it's Iran that is evil instead of Ingsoc ?

This good vs evil is garbage. Stability is important.
Good and Evil is what churches argue and not gouvernments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecsuite

no comment on that one

i think we have made some silly decisions in the past that hurt many people, its hard to defend us

but nonetheless, if we hurt somebody and i know they are angry at us, i would discourage them from getting a weapon that they can us against us, whats fair aside.

Silly decisions...
OK I have to tear this.

Mother Threasa helped thousands perhaps even millions.
But if she drank a little too much sacrament wine and beat a child with 5 years of age until he was unconscious.
Would the world just shrug and say "She just made a mistake but she helped out more than she hurt ?"

What do you think she would be remembered as.

Or perhaps a Doctor that has helped many.

He shoots his wife because he things she is cheating on him...
Will the american legal courts say, "well he made a silly mistake but over all he does more good than bad ?"

It does NOT matter if you are a private citizen, non-profit organization, doctor, baker or an entire nation.

One Abu Garhab prison incident...
One wrong war...

It is not going to matter if you sent a billion-trillion dollars in food to feed starving children in africa. You are going to be considered enc****
And you are asking for another 9/11.

If for no other reason than to save their own behinds the american people have
a responsibility to rise up and force their gouvernment to take responsibility for their
actions. Because nothing short of putting the Great White Butcher in prison
is going to convey a message to those they have hurt and stop the future assualt of another 9/11

**Cheshire_cat** · 09-27-2007, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lackofthought

Well I didn't see what he wrote at the end sorry cat, but I don't think that any country should have WMD, since America started with nuclear weapons we need to be the ones who set the example of dismantling them.

It's ok I have done that before too.

**swiftmed** · 09-27-2007, 09:01 PM

i dont think any country should have nukes.

**SeanB** · 09-27-2007, 10:36 PM

No, there is no reason to allow Iran to have nuclear capabillities. Ahmadinejad is a terrorist and, I believe, unlike other nuclear powers, he and Iran would be willing to use them.

**Cheshire_cat** · 09-28-2007, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

Cheshire Cat is someone we're proud of. I think the world and even just the US would be a better place if we had more like him. Chesh understands why you think what he said is ridiculous and wrote it as a joke to make a larger point.

Thanks Newbie.