General Discussions

**Foundationflash** · 11-14-2007, 02:08 PM

I was trawling the web when I found this snippet:

"I can't leave this little topic without commenting on the sadly small number of computer professionals who have a good command of English grammar, spelling, and punctuation. It leads to the situation in which technical documents must be heavily proofread by English experts ... I recall spending some time with some of these people at IBM once. They had collected a list of amusing and odd pieces of jargon that they were always stumbling across. (The non-word "ROMable" is the only example I can think of, but some of the items on their list were truly comical.) Some of it they had to tediously translate into "real English.""

Bit harsh I think, but somewhat realistic. What do you guys think? I'd like to think I use good English (and I'm modest too).

**ADAM Web Design** · 11-14-2007, 02:27 PM

I feel the same way. Most technonerds have no clue how to red 'n' rite. I've always felt that the example cited above was the lesser of two evils, however; personally, I'm more annoyed when "your" unable to open up "you're" grammar textbook and use homonyms correctly.

I suspect others would agree with me allot, to.

**fastreplies** · 05:34 PM

I agree that it is shameful for people who born in English speaking families and went to
school to have bad grammar but lets not forget that with changing world in the past
10 – 15 years millions of people adopted English as their second and sometimes third
language and now are trying to communicate with the others the best they can.

I can tell you that it’s very difficult to do if you never spend even one day in school and
are lacking very basic language rules that English speaking public are taking for granted.

fastreplies

**tripy** · 11-14-2007, 03:39 PM

I have to second Fastreplies here.

I haven't learned English in school.
I've learned it by myself, reading code (I've started coding by copying BASIC programs to my father CBM when I was 4), using English based programs, and many years later, playing "talkies" computer games.
I've buyed my first cdRom drive to play "Day of the tentacle" with the voices, and it helped my understanding of talked English a lot.

I never really learned any grammar rules, but with time, there was some sentences that just sound oddly, and others that sound fine.
I have to admit that it's the same in French (apart that I've learn those rules once, but forgot them.), I know when something is wrong in the sentence, but I cannot explain why, nor give the reason why...

I don't know how nor when exactly I did, but for many years now, when I read English or write it, I actually think in English too.
But I know that it's not that easy for many peoples. Even those who learned English.

**Learning Newbie** · 11-14-2007, 04:04 PM

me kin taak gud!! y u no dat ppl be taakin baad? sa aint soo!

**Foundationflash** · 11-14-2007, 04:12 PM

Oh yes, I wouldn't have a dig at those that have learnt English as a second language - I've heard many use much better grammar than those with English as a first language (with whom I get annoyed).

That's in general of course, as I haven't had much experience with groups of technonerds (as I can't be employed in such tasks yet). It's odd to see people that have applied themselves in one area not take the slightest knowledge in another.

And the irony of your last sentence ADAM Web Design...

**davemies** · 11-14-2007, 04:42 PM

and some irony in fastreplies's reply too

**serandfae** · 11-14-2007, 07:23 PM

I definitely would not fault those who have learned English as a language other than their native tounge, but there's a dismal falling off in basic knowledge amongst native speakers of their own language. It's not just with programmers. Colman McCarthy said it best: "If a foreign power had forced the educational standards upon us we live with today, we would consider it an act of war." I may not have the quote verbatim, but you get the point. And I first discovered that quote in 1990.

**ForrestCroce** · 11-14-2007, 09:26 PM

People have told me I'm a good writer ... which is strange, because you shouldn't really notice good writing. It should be like good acting. You don't notice the acting, you notice the role being portrayed; if I'm good at writing, people should be thinking about what words I choose.

I would expect people who write or maintain code to be better at whatever their native, uh, people language is? Someone who's able to 'teach' a computer new tricks needs to figure out what it understands and what needs to be changed. They also have to communicate requirements and user interface issues of the code they're working on to the client...