General Discussions

**Learning Newbie** · 03-03-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

According to a March survey by Ponemon Institute, a privacy think tank, 35 percent of hiring managers use Google to do online background checks on job candidates, and 23 percent look people up on social networking sites. About one-third of those Web searches lead to rejections, according to the survey.Social networking sites have gained popularity among hiring managers because of their convenience and a growing anxiety about hiring the right people, researchers say.
Big corporations long have retained professional investigators to check job applicants’ academic degrees, criminal records and credit reports. But until now the cost has deterred the ability of smaller firms to do the same level of checking, said Sue Murphy, a director of National Human Resources Association.

I don't know anybody who's lost a job they got offered because they put stupid things on the internet. I've heard of it happening, but I also know you can make social network profiles private. Apparently lots of people don't.

Quote:

Risqué pictures are not the only way a job applicant can be tripped up. Pictures of illegal behavior like drug use or heavy alcohol use could disqualify a candidate too. Some also suggest poor writing and bad grammar in Facebook profiles and in blog entries can raise a red flag about communication skills. Derogatory comments or complaints or radical political positions also can draw the scrutiny of a prospective employer.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20202935/

What do you think? Is this a case of weeding out the people who can't think? Is it an invasion of privacy? Is it not unethical, but creepy?

**cbwm** · 03-03-2008, 03:25 PM

Whatever it is, it is possible, and happening, and there probably isn't much that can be done about it, unless the hiring manager stupidly told you he didn't hire you because of what he saw online about you (Not likely). Its easy enough to keep your private life private. Just don't post your name on anything google indexed or publicly accessible. Whats so tough about that?

Regarding the inability of small companies to do background checks due to high costs, it isn't true anymore. I know of several companies that offer complete background checks with only a name, social, and 85$. I'm talkin BCS.... hard and deep. These types of things have become necessary since any type of negative statement by a previous employer can result in a costly to defend defamation suit. I personally have always taken a previous employer's refusal to provide a positive reference as signal the applicant is undesirable.

**Monkey Do** · 03-03-2008, 03:37 PM

It's becoming fairly common practice in the UK, and it's not just for prospective employees. Some switched on HR departments are introducing code of conduct clauses for social networking sites into their policies and procedures which they expect current employees to adhere to regardless of whether they are using the networks during office hours or not.

It's not particularly new either - I know of hiring managers who've looked up prospective employees on Friends Reunited ever since it started back in about '99. In one amusing case a chap who falsified timesheets to the tune of £100,000 faked his own death in order to avoid repaying the money was caught out when he tried organising a school reunion on the site.

**Learning Newbie** · 03-03-2008, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbwm

Its easy enough to keep your private life private. Just don't post your name on anything google indexed or publicly accessible. Whats so tough about that?

I have a common enough name, and refuse to provide any truly personally identifying information about me, like exactly what county I live in in this large state, my address, wife's name, or anything like that. Truthfully it isn't hard to keep your private life private, if you choose to. And whether a person realizes it or not, when you make something public, it stops being part of your private lift.

God, I think I agree with an arch Republican. I'm going to have to start drinking black coffee!

**ADAM Web Design** · 03-03-2008, 03:48 PM

That doesn't bother me, and I say and do a lot of things that might be taken as slightly offensive or controversial.

If you're that worried about losing a potential interview because there's a picture of you next to Billy Bong Thornton or Wesley Pipes, then don't upload the picture anywhere, *******. Keep that stuff to yourself.

What this all boils down to is that people need to take more responsiblity for the stuff they say and do online. If this happens to you, then you can't claim "it's not faiiiiiiiiiiiiir". You screwed up. Deal with it. I have to. You should too.

**cbwm** · 03-03-2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monkey Do

It's not particularly new either - I know of hiring managers who've looked up prospective employees on Friends Reunited ever since it started back in about '99. In one amusing case a chap who falsified timesheets to the tune of £100,000 faked his own death in order to avoid repaying the money was caught out when he tried organising a school reunion on the site.

What gives with the English faking their own deaths? I saw another news bit about a English guy who faked his death, with his wife collecting the money and moving to Panama. Maybe it just doesn't make the news in the states, though I find that unlikely.

**Learning Newbie** · 03-03-2008, 04:02 PM

So are you saying that employers have the right to use information that you made available to them when they make a decision about taking a chance in you?

**tripy** · 03-03-2008, 04:47 PM

Being conscientious and not posting personal info is one thing.

But, you, me and some over here are over or near our 30's.
We have experience in "real" life.

think about a boy that created a profile on a social networking site when he was 13 ~ 15.Does he thinks about it?
No. Because he's a teen with teen occupation and worries.
It's an rebellious age, and boy, I do am happy that some things I've done or said when I was 15 is not public.
Because it would have made my life way more harder.

Now, in our youth, we could move in another town and have "fresh" records (in a certain measure). But it's not really possible today anymore...

Imagine that teen when he's 20 and is looking for an application.
Imagine that he was posting in a "death metal goth horror fan forum", how can he control it today?
He was 15, maybe angry (and the hormones...). At 20, you are not the same that you are at 15, and he may loose a place where he was perfectly qualified to because of that.

This, honestly, is worrying me a bit, because I think of my daughter, her fascination for the computer and the keyboard.

A young adult, whatever his background, should have no more than a "justice check" (don't know how to say it in English... A check upon police records, to know his/her background).
But leave those kids their teen time, and don't bully them because of something they might have written years ago, in a particular context.

**Learning Newbie** · 03-03-2008, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tripy

A young adult, whatever his background, should have no more than a "justice check" (don't know how to say it in English... A check upon police records, to know his/her background).

A criminal background or records check. There are other types of background checks. Iv you want a job as a teller at the bank, they'll probably still do a criminal check, but also a credit check, because if you owe a lot of money, you might be more tempted to steal. So goes the theory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tripy

But leave those kids their teen time, and don't bully them because of something they might have written years ago, in a particular context.

Is that truly bullying and punishment, though? This is maybe wehre Europe and America show the differneces. In Europe, especially in France, a job is a thing society owes a person. Here in teh States, a job is a thing a person owes society the ability to get. Anyone living here who is unemployable is a dredge of society, and earns their place living on the street.

But still if a company is trying to decide who is the best person to award a job to, should they not be allowed to use this information a person puts together? We all have the inherent right to trust or not trust a person for our own reasons, after all.

**vangogh** · 03-03-2008, 08:45 PM

It's an interesting question.

John when I first opened this thread I was thinking as you are. If I put something in public shouldn't I expect that a potential employer might find it and use it in an evaluation process? If I don't want them to I shouldn't put it online.

But Thierry makes a good point. We're not the same now as we were when we were 15. I know I'm not. I can tell you with certainty I was a lot less mature back then. I was a typical angst ridden teenager and did and said a lot of stupid things. That's part of growing up.

Think of a teen who posts to a site like MySpace or Facebook. They write in txt speak. A few years later they get an English degree. They leave their profiles up though because they want the record of a time in their lives. Should an employer seeing those pages come to the conclusion that the person can't write in complete sentences?

Not even the usual example of someone doing something embarrassing.

Of course from the perspective of an employer if you're not going to hire someone because of something they said 10 years prior to an interview you're seriously limiting who's going to work for you.

**ForrestCroce** · 03-03-2008, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

Think of a teen who posts to a site like MySpace or Facebook. They write in txt speak. A few years later they get an English degree. They leave their profiles up though because they want the record of a time in their lives. Should an employer seeing those pages come to the conclusion that the person can't write in complete sentences?

A lot of the better devs I've worked with have sworn like sailors ... in the right company. And often dragged anyone who will follow to a bar on Friday afternoons. They're also able to communicate in plain English, and in technical terms. If I were hiring someone who wrote something in text speak, but was clearly able to communicate in a cover letter and had good experience ... the sector I'm in is too competitive to miss out on good talent for no reason.

But if these are whispers of 'we need to change the privacy laws,' it's a lot more complicated than it probably seems. Say you're doing sem work for a client who gets a lot of word-of-mouth publicity from MySpace. Should you be able to read the rants and raves on peoples' profiles to see what people have to say about your clients' products? Should a potential employer? The best people to make that decision are probably the end users in charge of their profiles. If you want something to be private ... set it that way.

**tripy** · 05:35 AM

Quote:

a job is a thing society owes a person

I don't live in France, but I'm a neighbourg of it.
We share many views with the Frenchies, but I'd just like to pour a bit of water on this.

I, and I believe many peoples here too, don't think that a society owes someone a job.
What I think though, is that no society should let their peoples ends up in the streets.
I find it being a strong difference, even if in the end, what our countries are doing to prevent that is creating temporary jobs.

It's the way the social system works here.
What I believe is a strong difference between Americas and Europe is that here, when you loose your job at 38, you are on the verge of being too old to find another one.

I knew a man which was good at his job, but could not find a job because he was 45.
For many enterprises, it's just too old. They find that the person will not be as engaged in the enterprise than a 25 years old person with almost no social life.

I've felt it too in one past job.
You are single, no family strings and you spend 10~12 hours at your desk, you are the best friend ever. You go in party with your colleagues, you go skying together, you go to the cinema together.
When you get married, have a baby, and let your priorities shift towards the family, you are slowly excluded, until you finally receive your letter.
It took 6 month before I get mine.

So no, I don't believe a job is due to anyone, but the society should protect their members, and not let them down a the lowest level
And providing them a job is the best method I believe we have found until now.

And just for the sake of it:

**Monkey Do** · 03-04-2008, 06:29 AM

To be honest I doubt that many hiring managers are going to hold the fact you posted on a death metal board at 15 years old against you in the real world, particularly if you have kept up the online habit and they have more recent information available that doesn't talk about sacrificing goats and burning inverted crucifixes into your head.

The biggest danger I think is that people tend to interract on social networking sites the way they do with their friends in a relaxed environment. This is not the same as most people conduct themselves in the workplace. The problem is compounded by the fact that the hiring manager reading what you write will apply a slightly different personal context to whatever they read, and without the benefit of 2 way conversation, body language and other non-spoken(or written) cues they might not see something that you consider as innocent to be quite so.

For example someone might write on a blog or social networking site that they "got well battered the night before" - this could mean anything from enjoyed an extra couple of glasses of wine on a special occasion and now have an uncharacteristically foggy head, or they engaged in their usual habit of injecting heroin into their eyeballs and are spending most of their working day looking for something to level them off.

You don't know how your hiring managers will read what you have written, or the conclusions they will draw. Something you at least have a little more control over with a traditional cv/resume.

Anyway on a related(-ish) note
Buddhist Monks do it too

**DaveMo~** · 03-04-2008, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

So are you saying that employers have the right to use information that you made available to them when they make a decision about taking a chance in you?

If it's public record, like the internet, then why not?

Dave

**badoo** · 03-12-2008, 09:11 AM

Its been happening all the while since all this social networking site started.

**CSS4Life** · 03-12-2008, 07:55 PM

This is something I'm mildly concerned about and something that I know one of my friends is paranoid about. She removed her Bebo page and refuses to get any social networking profile because she's afraid it could damage her future career (as a vet) - something she wouldn't want to compromise for anything.

I'm less concerned. I'd class myself as very tech-savvy and I know what I'm doing most of the time. Plus I don't have much to hide - I don't go out getting recklessly drunk like some adolescents (call me what you like!) and I wouldn't post something like that on a social networking site anyway. If the worst comes to the worst, I'd simply change my Bebo to private and remove information I didn't want on there - like I did on Facebook.

If employers have problems with my religious/political beliefs, then I'm sure that this would also cause a problem if I got the job. Therefore, it would be better to look around for a job with a more tolerant understanding employer than someone who'd force me to be someone I'm not. Self employment is always another way to go