General Discussions

**Learning Newbie** · 03-10-2008, 01:06 PM

A friend of the family's house was broken into. It's kind of surprising what was and wasn't stolen. But one of the things that got took was her personal laptop. The good news is she has homeowners, the bad news is it covers the hardware but not any data and info on the machine.

I don't know that much about networking, because for the most part you just plug in the ethernet and it works. But here's a question - she uses wifi and has it set to only allow certain MAC ID values to connect to the router. So she has the MAC ID of the computer. Also she had Vista (yuck!) and MS Office, paid for and registered. Based on that, there's no way to recover the machine, is there? No place you can take the info and they can keep an eye out for internet connections with those values?

Also does anyone know about stolen computers in general? I wouldn't think they would get stolen very often. If somebody offered to sell me a laptop that wasn't stolen goods, I'd be asking questions about what kind of CPU it has, how much RAM, the drive speed, and all kinds of things a junkie won't know the ansers to.

Anyway I think it's to late here but hopefully some good can come of this if we all go home and back our computers up at least. Plus maybe if we can all learn other ways to secure our stuff that would be a good thing. It would be great if Microsoft had a theft hotline where you could let them know your laptop was taken and next time it does a Windows update they grab the info, but I think they only care about theft of their software, not when it hurts their customers?

**NullPointer** · 03-10-2008, 01:16 PM

I'm not sure if MAC addresses are unique or not. I'm assuming it some kind of hash, but I don't know the likelyhood of a collision. Either way I do know that MAC addresses can be changed, but I doubt that whoever stole it will know how to. Generally being a common thief and having technical skills don't go hand in hand.

Sorry to hear about your friend, but I've never heard of anyone recovering a laptop by detecting the mac address when they connect to the internet. If they are behind a router then only the router will see that laptops mac address (I think) anyways.

Good luck though.

**LadynRed** · 03-10-2008, 02:41 PM

Time to LoJack the laptops, it's available for laptops now.

**tripy** · 03-10-2008, 03:13 PM

Quote:

I'm not sure if MAC addresses are unique or not.

They are, originally...

The problem is that some network cards who accept to be flashed might be able to have their MAC address rewrote
Now, every requests on a TCP/IP network include the originator MAC address, but localizing it is not a easy task.

There's one thing though...
If she still have the original papers that come with the laptop, she have the serial number of the laptop.
Any laptop who goes to repair on any brand is checked against a stolen number list, so it might get back to the surface one day with that.
But she have to give that stolen number to the laptop brand maker.

And, as for the protection goes, yes, back it up.
And use an encrypted file system. I know vista include this (but I don't know which version do) and I personally use truecrypt [ http://www.truecrypt.org/ ].
It allows you to even encrypt the booting partition, which will asks you your key at boot time.

Anyone without this key won't be able to access any information on the hard disk.
I use truecrypt on my usb key, just for that reason, since I have security sensible files on it.

**joder** · 03-10-2008, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

But here's a question - she uses wifi and has it set to only allow certain MAC ID values to connect to the router. So she has the MAC ID of the computer. Also she had Vista (yuck!) and MS Office, paid for and registered. Based on that, there's no way to recover the machine, is there? No place you can take the info and they can keep an eye out for internet connections with those values?

She is configuring her router for the MAC ID's. The thief won't be connecting to that router.

The MAC ID may be in a packet header but if so, you would have to have a packet sniffer and analyzer to get it. Those are resource intensive. The only ones that would use them for that purpose are the government.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

Anyway I think it's to late here but hopefully some good can come of this if we all go home and back our computers up at least. Plus maybe if we can all learn other ways to secure our stuff that would be a good thing. It would be great if Microsoft had a theft hotline where you could let them know your laptop was taken and next time it does a Windows update they grab the info, but I think they only care about theft of their software, not when it hurts their customers?

I keep my info backed up

MS doesn't have time. There is so much software piracy out there of their products.

**fastreplies** · 03-10-2008, 03:53 PM

There are programs available that will send email to specified email address if connection to Internet made from IP other than your own. It will report ISP name, IP block etc. that can be used to pin point where is that computer has been used.

fastreplies

**dansgalaxy** · 03-10-2008, 06:51 PM

Trouble is thats a bit late now...

I think the unfortunatly thing is its now gone, and the chances of getting it back are unlikely.

But like what was said above Report the serial and mac and ANY AND ALL id numbers etc to as many authorities as u can to increase your chances.

But a sensible person, would have formatted the hard drive ASAP, so the Mac and software etc would be gone, and usually remove all serial numbers.

(Geeks would make the best computer theives they know what to look for)

Dan

**tripy** · 03-10-2008, 06:58 PM

Quote:

so the Mac and software etc would be gone

No. A MAC adress is hard written in the network card firmware. This should stay unchanged, unless for some cards that can have their firmware flashed, and where it's just a small hack to change i.

**dansgalaxy** · 03-10-2008, 06:59 PM

Sorry Correction ^

But with out (extreamally illegal) hacking you cannot easily get a persons Mac address without having previous access to the computer...

**Learning Newbie** · 03-10-2008, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansgalaxy

But a sensible person, would have formatted the hard drive ASAP, so the Mac and software etc would be gone, and usually remove all serial numbers.

(Geeks would make the best computer theives they know what to look for)

I don't know who the thief was or what their technical skill level was or what. But I'm at least keeping my fingers crossed that whoever took it probably doens't have another operating system, or maybe even know how to wipe one and install another?

**dansgalaxy** · 03-10-2008, 07:13 PM

To be perfectly honest, i would wish the opposite, but it all depends on the person, their skill level, and their intention.

If they are freudster they would harvest as much infomation as possible from the laptop and use it to their advantage (Make sure your friend keeps a good eye on ALL accounts etc.)

But wouldnt it be better if they just wiped it so their ingo was not just being passed arround...

Dan

**ADAM Web Design** · 03-11-2008, 02:19 AM

The serial number trick MIGHT work with any registered, licensed products. I wouldn't hold out any faith that it would though...it's not really the "place" of software-types to be concerned about theft unless they're the ones being stolen from, as was pointed out earlier.

As far as the MAC address issue is concerned, it's unlikely that your laptop would ever be found this way since the only people who would be able to record that information are network admins (for ISPs and otherwise), as they'd need the MAC address for DHCP purposes...and ISPs, in Canada at least, couldn't care less about that sort of thing.

Sorry dude...but I think you're screwed.

**Learning Newbie** · 03-11-2008, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADAM Web Design

Sorry dude...but I think you're screwed.

Well there's at least some good news to be had

A friend is screwed, not me.
The laptop itself is covered by her home insurance policy. She has a rider called "replacement cost contents" or smething like that, which means they'll buy her a brand new laptop, fancier than the one she had. Recovering the old one would mess that all up for the sake of getting her data.
She learned a really valuable lesson in backing important stuff up.

Still I wonder if it's possible to make some kind of spyware like thing and install it on a laptop? Something that would ping a web server once a day or whatever, maybe when it connects to a network, to send a little message with the machine's ID numbers and MAC, so the server can keep a log of the IP + TimeStamp values, and if a computer ever got stolen but kept sending messages it might be eaiser for the owner to find?

**dansgalaxy** · 03-11-2008, 04:32 PM

that would be a good idea, but i cant help picking faults, it might work once or twice but for someone with half a brain it would show up as a process and stuff so wouldnt take much to turn it off, but it would be a very cool thing to do, and once the small piece of software was written very easy to do...

Would be rather neat, just have a website with the software you register, have the site generate a special unique hash on the software on install you enter that hash, on install it talks to the server verifies its "you" the software just sits in the background once a day on connection says hi to your database.

User can login and view the info and if they have the machine nicked, tell the site, and then u can have it so on the next connection, will email you or something.

Would love to do it but i wouldnt be able to write the software.

Dan

**Learning Newbie** · 03-11-2008, 04:40 PM

You're right. Maybe if it was a Windows Service instead of an application, then it would be harder to find in TaskMan if thieves got the PC.

Not that I know how to find any of these values in .NET, I'm just sort of brain storming in case anyone wants to take up the cause.

**dansgalaxy** · 04:46 PM

If anyone can write a Windows Service (god knows i had a go and failed misrubly) and would be able to work with me im happy to give it a go at making a basic system

and then working from there

Dan

**fastreplies** · 03-11-2008, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

Still I wonder if it's possible to make some kind of spyware like thing and install it on a laptop? Something that would ping a web server once a day or whatever, maybe when it connects to a network, to send a little message with the machine's ID numbers and MAC, so the server can keep a log of the IP + TimeStamp values, and if a computer ever got stolen but kept sending messages it might be eaiser for the owner to find?

John, it looks like you missed my post

http://www.webmaster-talk.com/genera...tml#post560153

fastreplies

**Learning Newbie** · 03-11-2008, 07:05 PM

Ohhh, I did miss that! Would be much easier to use things that already work than to start from scratch!

**dansgalaxy** · 03-11-2008, 07:19 PM

i forgot about that.

Still would be cool to have the whole site to go with it.