General Discussions

**zig** · 03-24-2008, 04:09 PM

As someone in IT, I'll admit... I really don't know anything about Vista yet.

I ordered a new laptop, and of course... it comes with Vista, no option to get XP Pro pre-installed. Should I start from scratch with XP Pro and just continue to pretend Vista doesn't exist?

**Learning Newbie** · 03-24-2008, 04:20 PM

Well if you're in IT and haven't learned about Vista yet, you might take this opportunity?

Personally tho I think the operating system is junk.

**zig** · 03-24-2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

Well if you're in IT and haven't learned about Vista yet, you might take this opportunity?

That is true... I could just run it on vmware/virtual pc but I don't think that would be a very pleasant experience unless I maxed out my ram.

**LadynRed** · 03-24-2008, 05:45 PM

I thought of doing that too when I got my new laptop that came with Vista pre-installed. However, because they do something to the boot sector with Vista, you almost can't get rid of it entirely.

My take was I'd try it out and if it ticked me off too much I'd just replace the hard drive and install XP. Frankly, I don't have that many complaints with Vista once I figured out how to disable or change settings to get around the really annoying crap it has.

The only annoyance I've discovered and have been fighting with is a networking issue with my XP desktop over the wireless network for the laptop. I was going to wait and see if Vista SP1 solved any of it.

**DaveMo~** · 03-24-2008, 06:05 PM

I also have a laptop with Vista installed. I have few complaints with it, but it took some getting used to. It may just be me, but it seems that Microsoft is borrowing some good stuff from some other browsers, like FF with their new IE on Vista.

Why not learn it and then make changes if you dislike it a lot?

Dave

**Learning Newbie** · 03-24-2008, 06:33 PM

If I got a laptop and the only way was that it had to come with Vista, I'd just hold my nose and use it. At least for a few months. I'm a SQL programmer mainly but I do a lot of C# too. I haven't done anything with WPF or WCF for example because I've stayed away from Vista. But apart from having a computer you don't want to toss out the window (get it?), is it possible knowing Vista can help your career?

**LightBred** · 03-24-2008, 06:54 PM

I would stick with using XP.

**ForrestCroce** · 03-24-2008, 09:06 PM

That crossed my mind for a split second when I bought my laptop ... based purely on the hype I'd heard. Most of it is unfounded. Vista doesn't seize up your computer, make you jump from the roof into pool of arsenic, or turn to Linux. It's not perfect, either, but the rumors of Vista's terribleness are greatly exaggerated.

While XP wasn't bad, either, I tend to use it when I have a specific reason to: lack of more licenses, old hardware, etc.

**GeekGal** · 03-24-2008, 09:31 PM

Vista is not as bad as the rumors may lead you to believe. If your computer is going to come with it anyway, then why not just try it out and see how you like it? If you see that you can't stand it, (and I don't think that you will!) then you can always switch over to XP later.

**joshmccord** · 03-24-2008, 09:56 PM

You could dual-boot XP and Vista. That's what I would do. The best of both worlds! Actually just XP and the scum of Vista, but still.

**joder** · 03-25-2008, 09:39 AM

I know someone who had Vista on a Laptop and put XP on it. Some of the drivers weren't available for XP so they had to reinstall Vista.

**mork29** · 03-25-2008, 10:22 AM

You will probably find some drivers issues with XP if you try that, but if you hit up some forums and do some google searching, you can usually find out a workaround.

I'd say setting up a dual-boot is your best option. It'll give you a chance to see how well XP works on your hardware, and to see just how much you like/disklike Vista.

After you're done with that, wipe the whole hard drive and install Ubuntu. After you realize that windows alternatives are pretty nice, but Linux is a bit of a pain on certain usability issues, you'll be ready to buy a Mac like you should have in the first place :P

P.S. Macs are great for running Vista and XP in a dual-boot. Great drivers for both sides. Oh, and they run Linux pretty well..... and of course OS X is awesome and a fully compliant POSIX compliant Unix implementation....

**Learning Newbie** · 03-25-2008, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mork29

After you're done with that, wipe the whole hard drive and install Ubuntu. After you realize that windows alternatives are pretty nice, but Linux is a bit of a pain on certain usability issues, you'll be ready to buy a Mac like you should have in the first place :P

Do you work for Apple? Own stock? Have some kind of vested interest in convincing people to overspend on Mac machines? Do you have any idea how unhelpful your reply is? The guy laid out the two choices he's willing to go with. DOS, Ubuntu (Windows GUI clone) and Commodore 64 with Basic for an operating system weren't on the table.

**joder** · 03-25-2008, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

Ubuntu (Windows GUI clone)

That's untrue. Many of the features that Windows adopted were first in the KDE desktop for Linux and other Unices. As far as GUI, I don't think Windows came up with anything first.

**Learning Newbie** · 03-25-2008, 02:10 PM

Plenty of Linux distributions have copied Windows's Task Bar and Start Menu. Ubutu does a pretty good job cloning the Task Bar. Here's an even better clone.

**joder** · 02:18 PM

You CAN clone the taskbar but certainly don't HAVE to. It is by choice.

But I take it you have never USED KDE. As far as my experience, it is a better experience than Windows.

EDIT: If you have used KDE for several years, you would have noticed many of Vista's improvements such as graphics changing on mouser-over were in KDE first.

Didn't Windows get the taskbar idea from another operating system

**Learning Newbie** · 03-25-2008, 02:27 PM

Nope, I've been successful in my quest not to use Vista. I could just pour gasoline on chewing gum, eat it, and get the same effect.

What operating system are you implying Windows took the Task Bar from? Certainly not Mac!! They have that weird always at the top of your screen menu bar thing that's part operating system, part each running program, and not very consistent. Very off putting! Giving each application that needs one its own menu so you can see what's what is one of the conventions that made Windows a success.

But Mac does have that balloon thing where the rounded icons get super big when you mouse over them. Too Vista like - this is why I won't use either of them.

I've said it before - I'm glad Linux is copying Windows instead of Mac. Shows they have, if not taste, an understanding what they need to do to get a user base. It suggests I might be able to seriously use Linux in 5 year's time.

**joder** · 03-25-2008, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

I've said it before - I'm glad Linux is copying Windows instead of Mac. Shows they have, if not taste, an understanding what they need to do to get a user base. It suggests I might be able to seriously use Linux in 5 year's time.

I'm not a person that says never use Windows. I'm on an XP laptop right now. Mostly because my company makes everyone use XP but it works well and I am not complaining about it.

But I have Linux on my home desktop and don't need windows on it for anything. IMO, the only thing you would need windows for is Photoshop, some games, or those apps that are you think you can't just live without that were programmed for Windows. But that can be run via KDE's remote desktop. Yes, you can run Windows remotely from Linux or MAC!. You can even make windows think Linux is a Windows server using Samba. And I can run VNC on Windows and access my Linux desktop.

I like MySQL for some things. It will certainly work for most people. SQL Server and Oracle are better when you need a more robust database server.

**mork29** · 03-26-2008, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

Do you work for Apple?

Nope, I work for the United States Army

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

Own stock?

Nope. Not a single share... Kind of wish I had bought some a few years ago...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

Have some kind of vested interest in convincing people to overspend on Mac machines?

I don't consider buying a Mac overspending. Not by a longshot. You get what you pay for... I'm directly incharge of overseeing an entire battalions worth of Automation assets. Panasonic Toughbooks (CF-28, CF-29, CF-72, CF-18), Dell Lattitudes (D610, 620, 820, m90) and a variety of other computers and networking equipment. This doesn't count the endless number of personal laptops that people bring to me to look at. Needless to say the Iraqi desert and heat can really put a drain on systems (read: they die). Oh, and our electricity is supplied by generators that put out anything but clean power. The macs that I see stand up better than anything. The fan placement is a huge factor in this, and Apple found a design that doesn't act like a vaccuum cleaner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

Do you have any idea how unhelpful your reply is? The guy laid out the two choices he's willing to go with. DOS, Ubuntu (Windows GUI clone) and Commodore 64 with Basic for an operating system weren't on the table.

My reply contained information besides the things you quoted. I discussed driver and dual boot options/issues. I used to run a Mandrake/XP dual-boot on a Toshiba laptop and had some issues. Also, being in Iraq, many Soldiers are buying their first laptops out here, and they're trying to figure out how to get XP on their. We don't have the greatest internet access out here, so I've seen dozens of people having driver issues in rolling back to XP, so I shared my personal experience.

However, your entire post had nothing to do with the OP and spent its entire contents flaming me. Well, I bit. I like the Mac. I believe that suggesting people switch the Mac is good advice. Lets say somebody made a thread on here asking for advice about their table based web page. Would I be wrong for telling them to try switching to CSS? He didn't ask about CSS, his entire thread said nothing about CSS, and the guy probably doesn't know a single thing about CSS. However, from my personal experience, I can say that using CSS is a good idea for layouts. Well, this guy probably hasn't taken a real look at windows alternatives, and this is a discussion about OS choices, so I don't think I'm that far off topic. </rant>

**Tone** · 03-26-2008, 09:12 AM

I suppose we will have to use it eventually but i am not exactly counting down the days until that happens.