General Discussions

**Allen.H** · 07-29-2006, 04:21 PM

Hello there,

Although i have some decently designed sites and blogs, i must admit i know next to nothing about web-design, i think that is a major draw-back these days, and that is what's mainly holding my creativity from being unleashed.

I want to learn web-design.

I know some of you will suggest w3schools.com, i've skimmed that site and it seems an excellent resource for a beginner like me, but my real question is: what should i learn first? in what order should i learn - HTML, CSS, PHP, C++, XHTML, CSS. I don't think i even need all of them! which ones are the most important ones...

Thanks in Advance,
A.H

**Plugin-Developer** · 07-29-2006, 04:40 PM

To start with you can learn HTML and (X)HTML together. Then, I would recommend you get a primer in PHP w/ MySQL databases. With that basic knowledge, you can code pretty much anything.

The hardest part, in my opinion, is getting the right balance of typography, color, contrast, and repetition to make your design look good. The coding is easy.

To do this, I'd recommend picking up Sitepoint's book Build Youw Own Web Site the Right Way using HTML and CSS. Then, you if you want to get more in-depth with CSS, you can try Wrox Publishing's CSS: Cascading Style Sheets for Web Design. To learn PHP, I used another Wrox book, PHP5, Apache, MySQL Web Development.

Of course, you could just try to teach yourself using online tutorials, and some people do, but these books can also act as references for you when you have to go back and relearn something or remember how to use some parameter in the correct way.

Good luck!

-Nick

**papua** · 07-29-2006, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allen.H

Hello there,

Although i have some decently designed sites and blogs, i must admit i know next to nothing about web-design, i think that is a major draw-back these days, and that is what's mainly holding my creativity from being unleashed.

I want to learn web-design.

I know some of you will suggest w3schools.com, i've skimmed that site and it seems an excellent resource for a beginner like me, but my real question is: what should i learn first? in what order should i learn - HTML, CSS, PHP, C++, XHTML, CSS. I don't think i even need all of them! which ones are the most important ones...

Thanks in Advance,
A.H

My little advice for you to is to participate in design contests like those in Sitepoint. Read the description posted by the contest owner and try to craft a site he wants. Post your design for all to see and wait for owner's comment. Then make the appropiate changes he requested and resubmit your work. Do this again and again until he found the winner. If you win, you earn some cash. If you lose, you earn some experience and improve your skills. :thumbup:

**imported_tom_h** · 07-29-2006, 08:18 PM

First step should be HTML, and no building sites with frontpage/dreamweaver is not learning HTML. Learning HTML should mean you know all commonly used tags for all kinds of different content. Your HTML should not contain tables for layout or divmania's. Also no image tags for the layout of your page, just for photos/illustrations/banners.

second step will be learning css. Learn how to position and style your HTML document, first develop in firefox and then fix IE, NEVER the other way around because IE renderings are bugged 9/10 times it appears to not work in firefox.

Third step, learn a programming language of your choice, a wise choice would be php/java/ruby/python. Don't read to many tutorials online, most suck. Get a proper (e-)book.

fourth step, learn sql. Start with mysql or postgresql. Learn the most common queries like insert/update/delete/select and use some phpmyadmin tool to create tables.

Fifth and up:

- design patterns
- database normalization
- linux server administration (avoid MS server administration)
- usability
- photoshop web designing(you prolly only need layer properties to create neat sites)
- webserver optimalisation/clustering/scaling

once you start earning enough dollars
- software architecture, send blueprints to india
- management
- marketing
- business laws
- market research
- and more **** to grow your stuff

gl

**Plugin-Developer** · 07-29-2006, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom_h

First step should be HTML, and no building sites with frontpage/dreamweaver is not learning HTML. <snip>
- and more **** to grow your stuff

gl

That was great advice from tom_h. I have to second the "no WYSIWYG web design" rule. While those programs are getting better at producing valid code, they are not great with semantics. Plus, you need to know what is underneath your page before you put it out there. I mean, what if something breaks? You'll have no idea what to do.

Also, I'd like to reiterate his advice on getting a book. Online tutorials only get you so far. Any of the books I recommended are good, but you can also read reviews on Amazon.com to find one that fits your style.

Good luck!

-Nick

**Tran** · 07-29-2006, 11:05 PM

So are you in the market to learn Programming? Or Design?

**stevel** · 07-30-2006, 12:04 AM

Start with basic HTML, than CSS, than a graphics program, than a design pieace of software (Dreamweaver), and than a programming langauge (PHP). Answer back in a year

.

**ReBoot** · 07-30-2006, 10:36 AM

I agree with stevel, start first in html then CSS. Then choose the right software that suites you most where you can be comfortable. After learning CSS you can then jump to a higher level like PHP, ASP, .Net, etc...

**imported_tom_h** · 07-30-2006, 12:24 PM

Don't destroy your just gathered knowledge by using a stupid WYSWYG program after learning proper HTML/CSS. If you don't gonna use the WYSWYG feature anyway there are much better programs like html pad 2006 with build in firefox/IE rendering.

**Allen.H** · 07-31-2006, 10:02 AM

Alright everyone, thanks for the large amount of opinions!

I will report on my progress later =)

A.H

**Decepti0n** · 07-31-2006, 11:16 AM

Also, C++ doesn't have anything to do with web pages etc...its more of a desktop-program language (like Visual Basic)

Also its complicated as ****

**scribble** · 07-31-2006, 12:07 PM

For web development/programming you might be interested to take a look at Ruby On Rails - rubyonrails.com.

I went from C++ -> Java -> PHP -> Rails

In my experience, projects that would take me a month in PHP I now accomplish in a matter of days with Rails. Ruby is a wonderfully expressive language and one of the most fun languages I've ever played with.

**sitedesigner** · 07-31-2006, 12:30 PM

Honestly, the best place to start is programming. If you learn a unique language that not many people know, or not as many know, then you often start yourself out in a good position to get 1) a job 2) customers 3) money.

Once you learn how to program, I'm pretty sure you'll learn how to code (html and css) because they aren't nearly as hard as programming. Design is always included in program design... arraning code and such. But you'll still get a little taste in design because you might be integrating a program into a design.

So my opinion is go with programming because you have a greater chance of getting a little bit of the others as well :-P