General Discussions

**joerandom** · 06-26-2008, 02:38 PM

For those of you who might be career webmasters I'm curious how you communicate with clients. I'm having issues because it seems like my cellphone/email two-punch combination isn't really working.

Some clients insist on leaving really lengthy messages, so my voice inbox is almost always full.

A client last week wanted me to set up a google chat account with him so we could IM through the workday. This seemed really strange to me, although I'm willing to try it out.

Working out of the home and doing freelance work does come with some issues, and sometimes I feel like the communication with clients isn't really there. Anyone else have this problem?

**Sneakyheathen** · 06-26-2008, 03:05 PM

I have an MSN and AIM account (and will probably get a Google chat one) and I use Adium to have just one chat client. (I have a MAC. For PC I recommend Pidgin or Trillian)

Mostly, however, I use emailing.

**VirtuosiMedia** · 06-26-2008, 05:19 PM

I would be a little cautious about providing IM access. Some people can work with it, but I know that for me personally, it would be more of a distraction than anything else. You don't want your client to be asking for a status report every hour. As an alternative, I'd suggest a client area to your main website. They can log in, see your progress on a demo or progress chart, suggest changes, etc.

**vangogh** · 06-26-2008, 05:30 PM

I primarily use email to talk with clients and will talk on the phone when a call will be easier. I've never had a problem. I don't think I'd ever give out my IM to clients or I'd never be able to get anything done.

You have to decide if you can use IM and still get things done. I can't.

With your clients hold firm. Email really is enough for most communication. Sometimes you will need more and that's where the phone comes in. If your client is too demanding think about how much more demanding they'll be when they have access to you 24/7

VM's idea about the client area on your site is a good option.

**Learning Newbie** · 06-26-2008, 05:51 PM

In the non freelance world, IM is becoming a standard. I work at a company that does consulting in general, basically locally outsourced programming. Almost all of our projects these days, we're getting paid to do something to do with a web site. All employees are required to use IM, meaning to have it running on their machine, and be logged in. This is mostly for internal communications, generally when email isn't fast enough and face to face isn't what's going on.

Sounds terrible, and I fought it when I had the chance. Truth is, everyone else did at first, too. No one wants to spend the day talking about baby pictures, etc. People only tend to use it rarely, to ask a quick question like "What database was XZY proc in again" and then go back to work.

I'd consider setting up a client facing IM account, distinct from your personal one.

**vangogh** · 06-26-2008, 05:59 PM

I find it useful when working with someone else, though it's still hard for me to get something done while I'm IMing. But sometimes you need to be able to ask each other questions when you're working on the same project.

I don't like using it with clients. They don't need the instant access. In general it's still my least favorite way to communicate in most circumstances.

**VirtuosiMedia** · 06-27-2008, 12:42 AM

I'd tend to think that IM would be much different using it with coworkers than with clients. For one, it seems like it would be ideal, for the other, considerably less than.

**Aadriyah** · 06-27-2008, 01:22 AM

I use the following that you can see in my sig.

**jabo** · 06-27-2008, 02:45 AM

Whats the cheapest way to communicate with someone in another country>?

**rsrikanth05** · 06-27-2008, 03:00 AM

I keep a second gmail account exclusively for such purposes.

**VirtuosiMedia** · 06-27-2008, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabo

Whats the cheapest way to communicate with someone in another country>?

Skype is pretty decent from what I can tell. Otherwise, I'd try a phone card.

**rsrikanth05** · 06-27-2008, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabo

Whats the cheapest way to communicate with someone in another country>?

Google Talk.

**joerandom** · 06-27-2008, 11:08 AM

Thanks for the input, everyone. I actually have set up a separate google talk account for clients; we'll see how that goes. Luckily the clients I've had so far have respected my privacy and have only used IM in particular instances. At least no one is trying to text message with me!

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

With your clients hold firm. Email really is enough for most communication. Sometimes you will need more and that's where the phone comes in. If your client is too demanding think about how much more demanding they'll be when they have access to you 24/7

I've thought about this. I wonder if an advanced 800 number, like a gotvmail account, or some other virtual voicemail would solve this issue. It would give clients at least a place where they could leave messages for me 24/7 if they felt the need, and I could route calls to either my cell or my landline pretty easily (that way I also wouldn't have to give either number out, they'd just be extensions). Anyway, as the business picks up that's another option I'm looking into.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

VM's idea about the client area on your site is a good option.

Indeed, I should start implementing that...I should update my site while I'm at it!

**Learning Newbie** · 06-27-2008, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

I don't like using it with clients. They don't need the instant access. In general it's still my least favorite way to communicate in most circumstances.

I agree, but I think it's something that needs perspective. I don't like using IM at all. I'm approaching 44 years old, and it makes me feel like I ought to be 14 instead. I'd rather just not use it at all. That said, I also like my paycheck.

They say the customer is always right, and while there are exceptions, it's generally a good idea if there's any competition. You just have to do a good job of managing expectations. You don't have to give them 24 hour access to you 7 days a week at all. Tell them up front you sign out at 6 pm (or whenever it is), and that you don't check again until the next morning.

If you manage it, IM is simply another way for the client to talk to you (or vice versa, like "Hey, this yellow background looks even worse than we predicted - look at this URL and tell me if you're sure") during work hours about subjects you'd be discussing anyway. If one of your clients wants to IM with you about that scene in Casablanca, you deal with it the same way you would if they called your office to talk about nothing.

To me, and it could be my experience using it with coworkers instead of paying clients, it turns out IM really isn't any different than any other way to talk to people. It's just giving people one more method, but all the same rules apply. And if opening this extra line makes your customer feel more comfortable in whatever way, and that gives you a slight business advantage over your competition, I say go for it.

Just make sure the ground rules are clear. It should be just like giving out your number.

**rsrikanth05** · 06-27-2008, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joerandom

Thanks for the input, everyone. I actually have set up a separate google talk account for clients; we'll see how that goes. Luckily the clients I've had so far have respected my privacy and have only used IM in particular instances. At least no one is trying to text message with me!

I've thought about this. I wonder if an advanced 800 number, like a gotvmail account, or some other virtual voicemail would solve this issue. It would give clients at least a place where they could leave messages for me 24/7 if they felt the need, and I could route calls to either my cell or my landline pretty easily (that way I also wouldn't have to give either number out, they'd just be extensions). Anyway, as the business picks up that's another option I'm looking into.

Indeed, I should start implementing that...I should update my site while I'm at it!

Lol, you take my idea, of a separate gmail idea, and don't even credit me?

Aleast a rep.

**vangogh** · 06-27-2008, 04:46 PM

John I understand what you're saying about giving clients access, but they already have that with me. If they do need instant access they have my phone number.

I just seem to be one of those people who can't work while IMing. I know some people can and there are definitely times when it's useful. But if I were to let clients IM me I wouldn't get anything done. Granted I don't get much done while on the phone, but it's easier to get the conversation done quicker.

I've managed it in the past by things like turning myself invisible. But people know you can do that and send an IM regardless of whether or not I appear to be there. The only solution for me was to turn off IM. Clients don't always listen when you tell them your hours. I've had clients call me at 7:00 on a Sunday morning and I've had them call me after midnight on a Friday. Last week I told a client I wouldn't be available all weekend as I had family in town and he proceeded to email me questions all weekend.

I'm not saying it can't work for others. It just doesn't work for me.

I do think it's good to give clients access to you and to also provide more than one way to access you, but I don't think I have to give them every possible way to access me.

**jedz** · 06-27-2008, 05:25 PM

Different IM's such as ICQ, MSN, SKYPE and Gtalk are very convenient ways of communicating with clients. E-mail is also good but I prefer to use these IM's because everything is clear with both parties especially when you are talking about the project.

**ECSuite_Russell** · 06-27-2008, 07:03 PM

Usually phone or email. I wish I could get more to use IM's for business communication. I hate playing phone/email tag.

**Learning Newbie** · 06-27-2008, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

John I understand what you're saying about giving clients access, but they already have that with me. If they do need instant access they have my phone number.

But suppose the phone system isn't appealing to your customer, as a way to access you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

I just seem to be one of those people who can't work while IMing.

And that's your quirk. I don't mean that in a negative way, it's just a particular thing about Van Gogh, that may or may not make sense to other people.

Your customers have quirks, too. One might be put off by the phone. Another may have broken his. A third might have run out of minutes this month. And so on - there are 1,000 reasons a customer might not want to use the phone, and 0 of them have to make sense. A lot of them won't make sense to anyone else, because they're idiosyncrasies of that particular client. This isn't abstract - if clients are asking for IM, there's a reason they want it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

Granted I don't get much done while on the phone, but it's easier to get the conversation done quicker.

How do you end the conversation on the phone, and why don't those ways work in IM? I'm not trying to make a point - I'm not sure if I'm losing you here, or if maybe I do something I might ought to share?

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

Clients don't always listen when you tell them your hours. I've had clients call me at 7:00 on a Sunday morning and I've had them call me after midnight on a Friday. Last week I told a client I wouldn't be available all weekend as I had family in town and he proceeded to email me questions all weekend.

And I would suggest you handle these situations and IM exactly the same way. People will learn that it's not about how they access you - it's about you, and whether you're accessible at all. I just don't answer the phone or email on weekends and evenings if it's from work, and I don't answer IMs, either. But then I work full time with set hours. But I make it clear, "Don't expect me to be available when I'm not on the clock. I might be, but if I am that's a random bonus, nothing more." But I'm not going to make myself unavailable by IM from 8 am to 5 pm because I don't want people using it at 9:30 pm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

I do think it's good to give clients access to you and to also provide more than one way to access you, but I don't think I have to give them every possible way to access me.

You don't! I'm just saying it's also true the customer doesn't have to pick me instead of my competition. We all want to do whatever we can to make outselves more attractive to clients, and we also want to reduce the amount of effort we have to expend. I think the sweet spot is in a different place than most people in this thread, and I'm not competing against any of you, so I'm trying to say "Hey, this is working a lot better than I ever expected, and I think you can take a lot of the benefits too." Nobody wants to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and I think the message is different from the messanger.

You guys all have valid reasons to fear IM, but I think you can get the benefits and mitigate the problems.

**vangogh** · 08:09 PM

John I'll answer all your questions at once. It's my business and I'm free to run it any way I choose. You mentioned in a post earlier about the customer always being right. I've always thought that was one of the stupidest business sayings ever.

The market is always right. The individual customer is sometimes wrong. You don't need to please everyone in every possible way.

I don't do IM well. I'm not saying other people can't do it well, but for me it's a drain on productivity. I'm not going to use it for one client at the expense of my other clients. Am I supposed to bend over backwards to please one client if it means losing my other clients? I don't think so.

By your same logic if a client requests I build them a house do I have to say yes because that's what they want? Of course not.

Let me share a bit about someone who was a client of mine a couple of years ago. He was about the biggest pain in the (fill in the blank) you can imagine. For every hour of work I was able to charge him for I ended up having to spend 5 hours of my time. I won't go into all the details of why, but suffice it to say having him as a client was costing me more money than it was making me.

It didn't make sense to keep him as a client. Could there have been ways I could have dealt with him better so I wasn't working 5 hours for an hour's pay? Possibly. But in the end it wasn't worth finding out. My business was better without having him as a client.

It might not be a popular opinion, but you don't need to please everyone. I was better off without him as a client and he's probably better off without me working on his site. There are other developers and other clients out there.

If you attempt to please everyone in business you end up pleasing no one.

At the moment this isn't an issue anyway since my clients aren't asking to be in touch via IM. If one did I would steer them towards another means of communication. If they insisted on IM I would weigh the pros and cons and decide if it made sense to use IM.

I'm not saying I would never use IM to communicate with clients, but it would have to be worth it to my business. I won't do everything to please a single client at the expense of my other clients.

I don't think anyone is fearing IM. I've used it and didn't find it useful for me. That could change in the future, but at the moment it's not a good solution for me.