General Discussions

**Learning Newbie** · 09-24-2008, 03:17 PM

Here are the web relevant bits from an article I just finished reading. There's a lot to think about - most of it having to do with issues the larger group won't care about. But the web specific part, I think can spark a good discussion here. This is the opposite of a lot of the common advice - and I think there's wisdom in the intersection, where the two philosophies meet.

Why I'm Unimpressed With Rawness Of Skillz

By Jon8/7/2008 6:40:00 AMSince forever, geeks who take themselves seriously have loved to brag such things as, "I use Notepad to edit web pages". Carrying this over to actual programming, "I never click into the designer when editing my ASPX", or "I never design a database using designer tools, I always design it all using raw T-SQL," or "I always update my SVN from the command line". (Someone in a local tech user group bears the post signature, "Real men use Notepad.")
Puhleeze. I'm not impressed, and frankly I think anyone who brags like this should get a swift kick in the pants.
IMO, there are three levels of elevation to guruism:

Awareness: Discovering the tech and the tools (like the WYSIWYG web editor .. "I'm a WEB MASTER, and you can, too!").
Intelligence: Swearing by Notepad and proudly refusing to use the WYSIWYG editor.
Wisdom: Knowing when to use the right tool at the right time in order to either save time or to produce the best output. Yes, that means being fully capable of staying away from the WYSIWYG editor or the designers, but it also means being completely, 100% unafraid of such tools if they serve the purpose of helping you write better code, more productively.

I get really turned off when co-workers smirk and look down their noses at me when I mention that I'm a tools collector, as if their refusal to use anything but the textual view of SQL Query Analyzer, the C# plain-text editor, and the command prompt somehow made them superior. The fact of the matter is, these are the people who produce output that share predictable characteristics:

Web pages are thrown together without thought to design.
Web page markup is excessive due to hit-and-miss browser testing rather than design-mode utilization.
Code is disorganized and messy.
Class libraries and databases are designed ad hoc and without thought towards the bigger, conceptual picture.
Databases lack indexes and referential integrity.
Buggy implementations take ages to be debugged due to refusal to fire up a debugger.

[GIANT SNIP]

Writing code should be tools-driven too.

Do basic designs before writing code. Make use of IntelliSense (for SQL, take a look at SQL Prompt). Use third party tools like Resharper, CodeRush, and Refactor! Pro. Mind you, I'm a hypocrite in this area; I tried Resharper and ran into performance and stability issues so I uninstalled it. I have yet to give the latest version a try, and same is true of the other two. But some of the most successful innovators in the industry hardly know how to function without Resharper. It doesn't speak well for them, but it does speak well for Resharper. There are lots of other similar tools out there as well.
UPDATE (8/26/2008): I've finally made the personal investment in Resharper. We'll see how well it pays off.
Don't be afraid of the ASPX designer mode.

I like to use it to validate my markup. Sometimes I accidentally miss a closing '>' or something, and the designer mode would reveal that to me much faster than if I attempted to execute the project locally. Sometimes it also helps to just be able to drag an ASP.NET control on the page and edit its attributes using the Properties window; this is purely a matter of productivity, not of competence, and fortunately the code editor supports InteliSense sufficiently enough that I could accomplish the same job without the Designer mode, it would just be a little be more work and, being manual, a bit more prone to human error.

[SNIP]

Design like you care.

Designers aren't just good for web layouts. I've particularly noticed how supposed SQL gurus who don't design database tables using the designer and prefer to just write the CREATE TABLE code by hand tend to leave out really important and essential design characteristics, like relational integrity (setting up foreign key constraints), or creating alternate indexes. Just because you can create a table in raw T-SQL doesn't mean you should.

[SNIP]

vi is better than Notepad.

If you must edit a text file in a plain text editor, vim is better than Notepad. No clicky of the mouse or futzing with arrow keys. The learning curve is awkward, but NOTHING like Emacs so count your blessings.
I'm kidding, but the point is that there's nothing "manly" about Notepad. Of course, for the GUI-driven Windows world, better than vi or vim or anything like that, these two free Notepad replacements are pretty nice, I use both of them.

In any case, there's nothing wrong with using Notepad or some plain toolset to do a job, but only if you're using the simpler toolset out of lack of available tools. You might not want to wait for two minutes for Visual Studio to load on crummy hardware. You don't want to wait for something to compile. Whatever the limitation, it's okay.
But please, don't look down on those of us who opt for wisdom in choosing time-saver tools when appropriate, you're really not helping anybody except for your own rediculously meaningless and vain ego.

[SNIP - CONCLUSION]

To this day I have no idea what on earth they were thinking, except that perhaps they were somehow proud of going raw--raw as in naked and vulnerable, such being the nature of manual labor. Going raw is stupid and dangerous. One wrong move can hurt or even destroy things (like time, sanity, and/or reputation). There's nothing to be proud of there. Thrill seekers in production environments don't belong in the workplace. Neither does insistence upon wasting time.

The source is well worth reading. http://www.jondavis.net/blog/

**andrei155** · 09-24-2008, 05:22 PM

It takes more knowledge to create a GOOD web page with notepad, than it does to use some site builder. I see them as more talented.

**jv17** · 09-25-2008, 08:40 PM

Is there a problem using the notepad?

**davemies** · 09-25-2008, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jv17

Is there a problem using the notepad?

read the excerpts from the article and you'll have your answer, or at least another opinion

**ascotech** · 09-26-2008, 01:25 AM

should i remind to notepad gurus that time is money?

**Learning Newbie** · 09-26-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jv17

Is there a problem using the notepad?

Yes. Time = $$$.

Sure, you can't build a web page in Notepad if you don't know HTML. But if you do know HTML, you don't stop being able to build one in FrontPage, or whatever other God awful WSYWIG is out there. Knowing HTML means you have a choice of what tool to use.

Sometimes Notepad is appropriate. Sometimes Notepad is not appropriate. If people never make that choice, and always use Notepad (or some other method of rubbing 2 sticks to make fire) when it's the wrong tool for the job, that shows a lack of skill.

**jamestl2** · 09-26-2008, 02:51 PM

When I first started getting into the web, creating a website, etc. I bought dreamweaver because I thought a program like that was required.

Now I don't even TOUCH "Site builders", "WYSIWYG editors", etc. I'll either do everything with notepad, or use a CMS (like Wordpress, or to an extent, vBulletin).

**andrei155** · 09-26-2008, 05:35 PM

I ALWAYS, ALWAYS use dreamweaver. I wouldn't consider myself a noob either : D. Although I usually head straight for the code tab (It neatly organizes commands by colour), I can still be found experimenting in the Design tab! It's always nice to double check how things'll look before you upload them!

**Learning Newbie** · 09-26-2008, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrei155

Although I usually head straight for the code tab (It neatly organizes commands by colour)

Which is an improvement over Notepad.

I think it shows intelligence when a person is able to use a tool instead of reinventing the wheel.

**serandfae** · 09-27-2008, 01:27 AM

It's HTMLKit with multiple browsers open for me, and PS if needed. I just didn't see the logic of springing for DW's hefty price tag when the layout tools spew junk code and I can slice something up in PS and import it with my code if needed. After a fashion, though, you can have a layout in your head and type it out, pulling from templates you've created as needed.

If you've reached a certain degree of proficiency in a spoken language you can think in it; I think that can directly translate to coding. To me, intelligence is shown by using efficiently the tools that are right for the job. I think a good designer can envision the overall design and functionality, and keeping that in mind translate that to organized working code, which requires streamlining what tools one uses.

Incidentally, though this isn't web related, I have been known to make tools when there wasn't something out there that fit the bill, reengineer something that already existed or just plain improvise something. If there weren't people who reinvented the wheel we wouldn't have cars. I do get what you're saying, though.

tim