General Discussions

**andrei155** · 02-24-2009, 07:53 PM

I use a calculator, and I can't multiply anything more than 12 x 12. However, I can critical think, and I AM a 90 student. I sometimes use my calculator to add 7 and 6, and it is in my pocket for most of the day.

Quote:

Seemed a waste of effort

Exactly. It's a waste of effort NOT using a calculator.

**serandfae** · 02-24-2009, 08:56 PM

Only if you're referring to the calculator known as your brain. What if you don't have the one with buttons? I was referring to a waste of effort showing my steps when I could solve in my mind more quickly.

Spell check is readily available in most browsers now, but I see daily those who can't distinguish you're (you are) from your (belonging to you), because they're (not their) spelled correctly. I'm sure there's some parallel to relying upon a calculator. It's a nice tool, but neither it nor spell check can think for you.

tim

**Decaf** · 02-24-2009, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serandfae

Only if you're referring to the calculator known as your brain. What if you don't have the one with buttons? I was referring to a waste of effort showing my steps when I could solve in my mind more quickly.

Spell check is readily available in most browsers now, but I see daily those who can't distinguish you're (you are) from your (belonging to you), because they're (not their) spelled correctly. I'm sure there's some parallel to relying upon a calculator. It's a nice tool, but neither it nor spell check can think for you.

tim

There are the unfortunate individuals whose brains do/can not perform the functions used to solve math problems. These people are either symmetrically deficient in all areas or are gifted in other areas.

It just seems easier to memorize the algorithms/answers for the "basic" problems. (Ex. 1-16x1-16, Square/Cube/4th Roots)

*Edit* I'm stuck in a writing mood from this paper, my bad.

**andrei155** · 02-24-2009, 09:41 PM

Sure I can sit there and multiply 4 digits by 4 digits, do long division for every question, add my fractions by having a common denominator, and memorize some constants. But why bother when I can use a tool (something humans are recognized for) to simplify my life a bit?

Calculators help students do more with their time. Instead of calculating simple math, one could focus more of their time on their critical thinking of the question at hand.

**NullPointer** · 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decaf

There are the unfortunate individuals whose brains do/can not perform the functions used to solve math problems. These people are either symmetrically deficient in all areas or are gifted in other areas.

I question to what degree that is relevant when it comes to basic arithmetic.

When you refer to people who are symmetrically deficient in all areas I assume you are refering to people who are mentally challenged or otherwise incapable. This is a special case and I don't think its what Tim had in mind when he referred to kids not being able to do math without a calculator.

As for the average person; I don't think that not being good at math is a justification for being dependent on a calculator.

That being said, this "new math" you refer to is the way I learned it when I learned algebra ten years ago, and we weren't allowed to use calculators. I don't think its an indicator of the declining state of our education system. I graduated high school in 05 so I don't know how relivant this is now, but when I was in school I found that the people who actually applied themselves did fine. I knew plenty of people who jumped for the calculator everytime they were presented with any sort of math problem, but they were not the ones who were applying themselves.

If you can't do math without a calculator and you have the mental capacity of an average person, then you arn't trying. I'll accept that its the fault of the education system for allowing this behavior, but ultimately I think people are responsible for their own education.

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrei155

Sure I can sit there and multiply 4 digits by 4 digits, do long division for every question, add my fractions by having a common denominator, and memorize some constants. But why bother when I can use a tool (something humans are recognized for) to simplify my life a bit?

Calculators help students do more with their time. Instead of calculating simple math, one could focus more of their time on their critical thinking of the question at hand.

I agree that if you are working on solving a more complex problem and you're dealing with large numbers then there is nothing wrong with using a calculator, but I've had peope ask me what 7*7 is.

**Decaf** · 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrei155

Sure I can sit there and multiply 4 digits by 4 digits, do long division for every question, add my fractions by having a common denominator, and memorize some constants. But why bother when I can use a tool (something humans are recognized for) to simplify my life a bit?

Calculators help students do more with their time. Instead of calculating simple math, one could focus more of their time on their critical thinking of the question at hand.

Frankly because children need to be developing there brains as much as they can, they will need it for a career and to stay "level-headed" into there 80's+. The excuse of "well I'm using it only because it makes my life easier is just a testament to how lazy we have become. If people are not willing to do basic arrhythmic, why should they bother with deciding to stop at red lights, vote or be a functioning member of society. People need to just buckle down and "suck it up". (Sorry, this is a rant but I just got back from a state conference where 1/2 my school went to skip school. It is sicking how clued out kids are today to the real world.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NullPointer

If you can't do math without a calculator and you have the mental capacity of an average person, then you arn't trying. I'll accept that its the fault of the education system for allowing this behavior, but ultimately I think people are responsible for their own education.

I could have not said it any better.

**andrei155** · 06:44 PM

The average global life expectancy is 75 years. Not too many people will be preparing for their 80's.

I still don't see the problem with calculators. Would you use your hands to push a nail through wood, or would you a hammer?

**EvcRo** · 02-26-2009, 07:07 AM

=-49-[-20-9]+10
=-49+29+10
=-10

**Decaf** · 02-26-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrei155

The average global life expectancy is 75 years. Not too many people will be preparing for their 80's.

I still don't see the problem with calculators. Would you use your hands to push a nail through would, or would you a hammer?

I'm just saying that the research shows that teens and adults who use there brains more and for higher level thinking (Ex. Brain Teasers, New Languages, Critical Thinking, Memorization, ect...) have a higher brain functioning rate into there later years.

Plus with the increasing amount of teens revolting to drugs, alcohol and sex, they can really use all the help they can get.

**andrei155** · 02-26-2009, 06:47 PM

Hey, survival of the fittest. I couldn't care less about what others are doing. I also don't care about their brain capacities. School is just one big competition.

**Decaf** · 02-26-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrei155

Hey, survival of the fittest. I couldn't care less about what others are doing. I also don't care about their brain capacities. School is just one big competition.

Ya, thanks for not flaming my venting, its really helps.

**serandfae** · 02-27-2009, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrei155

I still don't see the problem with calculators. Would you use your hands to push a nail through wood, or would you a hammer?

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrei155

Hey, survival of the fittest. I couldn't care less about what others are doing. I also don't care about their brain capacities. School is just one big competition.

The question remains what you would do if you didn't have a calculator or a hammer. Your survival depends on how you use all those critical thinking skills in real life. If I didn't have a hammer I certainly wouldn't use my hand to drive a nail. I can and do use a calculator as a tool, but I'd be perfectly fine without one.

tim

**NullPointer** · 02-27-2009, 01:48 PM

"Using a calculator for basic arithmetic is like using a hammer to drive a thumb tack into a cork board, it will work, but its a whole lot more trouble and people might give you strange looks."
-Me

**Decaf** · 02-28-2009, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NullPointer

"Using a calculator for basic arithmetic is like using a hammer to drive a thumb tack into a cork board, it will work, but its a whole lot more trouble and people might give you strange looks."
-Me

History has proven that the most adaptable civilization will be the dominate civilization.

**Decaf** · 03-21-2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alisongold

1+1=4
6+3=-3
1+1+1+1+1+1+1=80

I can't think of a programming language that allows numbers to be the first char of a variable.

Ex's.
1 = 2
1 + 1 = 4

1 = 11.4
1 * 7 = 80(ish)

6 = -6
3 = 3
6 + 3 = -3

Or the poster is just horrible at math.

**Brian07002** · 03-30-2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decaf

I can't think of a programming language that allows numbers to be the first char of a variable.

Ex's.
1 = 2
1 + 1 = 4

1 = 11.4
1 * 7 = 80(ish)

6 = -6
3 = 3
6 + 3 = -3

Or the poster is just horrible at math.

I could just imagine what they would think PI actually is...Oh, yeah...It's sounds like pie not pee.