General Discussions

#1 (permalink)

I'm somewhat new to freelance web design, and I'm confused as to what I should charge a certain client. My client knows nothing of standard web design pricing, so I want to price it so that it's worth my time, and yet it won't scare them off.

Some things that they wanted:
1. Some simple pages that display content. They didn't clarify whether they wanted a CMS or not, though I believe that will be the case based on the other requirements.
2. A store that would sell CDs and DVDs and would be fairly easy to update.
3. A contact form with a simple filter (I almost excluded this from this list I'm showing to you since it will be so easy to create).

I'll also be designing the site with a simple layout, with suggestions from the client. And since the client knows so little, chances are I'll be handling the domain and the hosting. Any suggestions on what I should charge?

Thanks.

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#2 (permalink)

Based on your description I'd recommend $100/hr. If he gives you any trouble, tell him I'll charge him $150/hr.

However, before you get started, you really need to create a very very detailed list of exactly what you are going to deliver.
"Details" like, whether or not there should be a CMS can make a big difference.

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#3 (permalink)

I'd actually like pricing for the job, not per hour. Less pressure that way. And yes, we've only exchanged emails once, so naturally I'll be verifying details like that. But let's just say I was going to use a CMS (I'm planning on using Drupal).

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#4 (permalink)

If you price for the job, then it is even more important that you specify exactly what you will be doing. You will need to spend some (uncompensated) time working out a plan of attack to create an estimate of how long it will take.
I still recommend against this. It is very hard to create an accurate estimate of a decent size project ahead of time. We developers tend to be over-confident.

Create a list of deliverables. Define exactly what the acceptance criteria are.

Define a payment schedule to conform with each deliverable.

Define how you will handle changes in requirements. Changes happen, it's part of the biz. Usually, this means creating an amendment or drawing up a new contract. Make sure you stick to the rules you define here. Nothing will hurt you more than being a nice guy and slipping in customer's change requests.

Make sure you work out in advance how your will handle training, support, maintenance and bug fixes. This kind of stuff will suck down your time.

Put everything in writing

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#5 (permalink)

Wonderful. Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll be keeping these in mind for this project and any other future projects.
Were I to be paid by the hour, what would be the best way to measure my time so that it does not appear fraudulent to the client?

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#6 (permalink)

Start with something like 3 pages simple site for $199.00
If they buy it, then start adding $$$ for Art Work, Forms etc.

Telling to someone that they are going to spend $1,500 for web site up front
is unwise but starting at the bottom and then when it's over get paid $2,000
and make them happy because they didn't pay $3,000, will made you a "good man"
with money in your packet

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#7 (permalink)

Great, thanks. Free advice is always appreciated.

Anyone else?

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#8 (permalink)

Just be honest

You would want to generate invoices where you list the actual work done and the time taken. You don't want too much detail here but, just enough.
The other thing this allows is "administrative" time. This is the time you spend in meetings, phone calls, etc...

One tool I've found useful is Mylyn (it runs inside of Eclipse). It allows me to create a set of tasks. When a task is "active" it tracks the time spent, and remembers the state of my development environment. It's smart enough to pause the timer when I'm away from the computer.

The best part is, when I switch to a task I've previously worked on, my dev environment is restored to the state it was in when I last worked on that task. This makes it easier to jump back into the state of mind I had when working on something else.

Back to the main topic. Most folks recommend setting minimum times when called in for maintenance work (new features, bug fixes, etc). This keeps clients from burning up your time and ensures that you provide good value for them.

You can find some good blog posts covering much of this if you search around DZone and the Programming sub-reddit.

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#9 (permalink)

Specially when it placed next to the Green Bar

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#10 (permalink)

Huh. Would 'not too much detail' be not listing minutes?
Also, do you normally charge for "Administrative" time?

@ranter: Given.

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#11 (permalink)

That and, not doing things like listing individual files worked on etc..
you definitely don't want to get any more granular than hours
If you don't, you could find that stuff consuming a big percentage of your time. It's the kind of thing that can average you down to minimum wage.

You don't charge for administrative time to be greedy or mean. For one, it's part of your work. Think of it this way, if you have a job and the boss says, you aren't going to be paid whenever there's a meeting, would you stay? would that be fair? of course not.

To clarify a bit: The upfront time you spend meeting with the prospective client, working on details, creating estimates, drawing up a contract, you are doing for free. It's no small amount of time.

One of the reasons contract workers charge so much is because they have to make up for that kind of time as well as time spent chasing contracts. Besides having to handle their own benefits, retirement, etc..

The common rule of thumb for pricing contract work is, take what you would make on salary, double it, and divide by 2000 (avg work hours in a year). You have to take your experience into account as well.
For example, a software engineer who earns $150K/yr salary, would charge $150/hr doing contract work.

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