General Discussions

**JValero** · 08:51 AM

Split off from this thread

@chrishirst,

It is very, very sad that someone came asking for advice. They obviously were ill advised (per your SEO perspective) and you respond with negativity and not an ounce of input. Then they thank you for your input (even though you didn't give any) and ask for more detail and you still don't respond with any valid advice. Considering your post count and position here, do we assume you represent the full attitude of Webmaster-Talk.com?

I mean being a new member of the community, now is the perfect time to let me know if I should move on. I would hope that is not the case. As I want to learn, grow and share here as well. But if I have to worry about being abused by moderators for asking a question that they deem stupid then I won't feel very comfortable.

So to right a wrong, here is what I suggest. I suggest chrishirst be asked to eat a big slice of humble pie. I think he should post a formal apology to the OP for his tone and inability to post a meaningful reply beyond his my way or the highway attitude. And I think he should have to re-pledge in front of the entire community to not be an a**hat to members of the community.

Now you may say I'm flaming, but really I am just trying to contribute to making this a better community for learning. Because guess what, not everyone knows as much as the next guys. And some people learned wrong, and will need to be corrected in a way that builds them up, not tears them down. And whether you like to think or not, some of what you learned could be wrong.

P.S. I do want to thank you for that link though HR Tips for Newbies. Imagine if that post had been your original reply. Would have been a thing of beauty I tell you.

**C0ldf1re** · 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JValero

@chrishirst,

...Now you may say I'm flaming...

P.S. I do want to thank you for that link though HR Tips for Newbies. Imagine if that post had been your original reply. Would have been a thing of beauty I tell you.

Not flaming in the sense of being abusive. But ladling on the criticism to the extent that some would call it trying "to put the boot in"!

chrishirst helped me with a prompt, polite, accurate and authoritative reply. His post also helped you, and potentially lots of other readers. Bear in mind that this is free advice from an expert; he is quite entitled to ignore questions if he likes!

Why was there a difference between chrishirst's attitude to me, and to another person?

It might be that we asked in very different ways!

One of the questioners seemed to have the attitude, "Look at my backlinks and see that I am a professional web designer. I nearly know it all. What I know is to ignore good content, and to spam blogs, forums and social media. Can you help me be even more perfect?" I do repeat seemed to have the attitude.

It might be enough to exasperate a genuine expert!

P.S. What is an a**hat? (I may have had a sheltered upbringing.)

**JValero** · 04-30-2010, 06:31 PM

Being an expert does not make you a God, nor does it enable you to act like one. You say it gives him some right to act differently than the rest of us? I don't even think chris thinks that way. So you really should up your self-worth if that is how you truly think. I know the owners of this site are about helping people or they wouldn't have started the site and have seen so much success. My point was that chris' posts in THIS thread were ill representation of the community given his position. Not that he himself was an ill representation. I'm quite sure he didn't get his position by twiddling his thumbs. Anyone can see he has a work ethic. But sometimes even the greats have to be reigned in and reminded to be humble.

**C0ldf1re** · 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JValero

... you really should up your self-worth....

This forum is fantastic! Now we are being offered free expert psychological evaluation too!

P.S. You still haven't said what an a**hat is. I thought I had a good command of the English language, but I'm sure I don't know any such word. Did you make it up?

P.P.S. King John reigned in 1215, the year when the barons, led by Simon de Montfort, reined in the monarch's power with Magna Carta. (Just to reassure myself that I do indeed have the aforesaid good command of the English language!)

P.P.S. It is to be hoped that everyone will refrain from the rejoinder, "Up yours, too!"

**chrishirst** · 04-30-2010, 07:19 PM

Quote:

P.S. What is an a**hat? (I may have had a sheltered upbringing.)

It's "a$$hat" I believe it's considered an insult in the colonies.

Personally I think "w4nker" or "sh!tforbrains" is far more direct.

Actually I've done the "humble" approach and tried the "treat them with respect" idea, I find that a metaphorical whack over the head with a chair leg, or a straight forward challenge to someones ideas gets their attention much quicker than the "I'm sorry old chap, but I must respectfully disagree with you on that point".

**bige2533** · 04-30-2010, 09:33 PM

I believe using google analytics can be one tool to aid in SEO. They have a new item in their dashboard that gives you the number of queries that returned a result with your site, the number of impressions, and the number of clickthroughs for those pages. You would always know the number of visitors you have from Google's search but this now gives you how often it is searched.

Since the thread has slightly derailed, I'll offer up my opinion as well. I think Chris calls it like he sees it. He'd like to have quality threads versus fluff. He has the same delivery as a lot of people in the UK. For example, look at Simon on American Idol. You may not like how the message is delivered but he's usually right. That's why I come to this forum, the content is good.

**C0ldf1re** · 05-01-2010, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrishirst

It's "a$$hat" I believe it's considered an insult in the colonies.

I had to google that before it made sense! As in, "You've got your head up your backside, so your backside is your hat."

It is amazing that something as poor as that came from the same nation that gave the world The Simpsons.

Thanks again for the previous link. I'm enjoying learning about SEO the right way.

Funny thing, but there's some unlearning to do as well. Like many people, I occasionally open a spam email with a clever header. So I've heard the sales pitch along the lines: "More visitors = more profits. High PR = more visitors. Lots of backlinks = high PR. Buy new SuperAutoBlogSpam software for just $29.95!"

Thank heavens I never tried it. I have now read that lots of context-irrelevant backlinks from blogs leads to a low google "trust" factor and lower serps. Do you think that is right?

Perhaps you would be interested to know that ThailandForum (a pretty bright chap himself) had particularly suggested to me that I look out for posts by chrishirst on this forum, which is why I came onto this thread in the first place.

**chrishirst** · 05-02-2010, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C0ldf1re

I had to google that before it made sense! As in, "You've got your head up your backside, so your backside is your hat."

It is amazing that something as poor as that came from the same nation that gave the world The Simpsons.

Yeah but don't forget they also gave the world "Dynasty" and "T.J. Hooker"

**chrishirst** · 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bige2533

He has the same delivery as a lot of people in the UK. For example, look at Simon on American Idol. You may not like how the message is delivered but he's usually right.

<accent type="South Carolina">Whyuh thank yu sah</accent>

I suppose that's the thing, we (the English) haven't been completely brow-beaten into the "don't offend anyone" mindset.

Hey it's a tough world, if being offended upsets you ...

... Stay indoors!!

**FenceGuy** · 05-02-2010, 09:02 AM

Poor Chris! I remember when I first started posting here, boy I thought Chris was a w4anka! After several discussions with him, I realized he does a very tough job, and doesn't get paid for it.

It amazes me how much spam comes through this forum, but I have gotten genuine help here, even if I had to read through the BS to get it!

And Chris, stop picking on us "Carolinians" (North Carolina here). As far as I am concerned, you are the one that talks funny!

**Giselle** · 05-02-2010, 10:26 AM

Hello Jasper,

I wouldn't move on, this is the best Webmaster community!

As far as Chris goes, I would say Chris is the top Moderator and very dedicated here at Webmaster Talk, with no disrespect to the other Moderators. The gentleman is very very knowledgeable and does give sound advice when it's not ridiculous. You have to read through the many different threads to see for yourself.

Yes Chris has a sarcastic humorous way of handling himself with these threads, I am married to a gentleman with the same kind of personality, who happens to have some English blood also.

Again I wouldn't move on.....

**lynxus** · 05-02-2010, 12:27 PM

I have to agree,
W-T is a great forum and while Chris can be a bit blunt sometimes. Just dont be offended.

As he said, sometimes people need a swift kick just to get them thinking correctly.

Handing out basic answers straight off the cuff doesn't do anyone much good nor do they learn.

He's helped me out plenty of times and also put me straight when im quite blatantly thinking stupidly.

You also have to realise that this isn't play-school. if you work in I.T then you will realise that his attitude is quite normal for any of us I.T workers.

So,
- Dont take it personally unless stated.
- Learn from your mistakes.
- Ask a stupid question, Get a stupid answer.. The olde. Sh1t in Sh1t out machine.
- Sometimes, A cryptic answer is better than a blunt 'Heres how you do it'. Giving you clues and tools to find the answer yourself is better than being handed an answer.

**JValero** · 05-02-2010, 10:56 PM

Well to answer your question about the a**hat I was using it in the sense of definition #2 on this page. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=asshat

Now back to my point, I will have to disagree with you on your method even with the points you mentioned considered it is not the way. So what your suggesting is to break the wheel? It has been proven over and over in study after study that people learn better with positive reinforcement and patience.

Now I understand that you can't afford everyone the personal touch. It would be ridiculous to assume you could with such a large membership. But perhaps lean on the time tested strategy of quality over quantity. If your going to answer posts as a moderator, then make sure you have enough time to do it with the most effect. I'm sure people would appreciate it and your strong work ethic, knowledge and integrity won't be overshadowed by what could be mistaken for arrogance. Arrogance always overshadows every other positive trait, and always closes more doors than it opens.

**Sierra Charlie** · 05-03-2010, 02:39 AM

Chris's attitude is quite understandable. I also tried the 'friendly neighbor' line but it's quite tough with the loads of B***S***ers. Probably it's the best way forward. Be blunt about what you say so that whoever who posts c**p will think twice before they post something in the future.

But having said that those who really need help, get it from this forum. There are numerous examples where n00bs asked pretty basic questions and get some good help from this site. It's not about attitude. Don't read it like that. It's more about conserving time.

Spend some time at the forum. You'll get what we mean. 13 posts and ten days as a member means very little. This is a no BS zone.

**C0ldf1re** · 05-03-2010, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JValero

Well to answer your question about the a**hat I was using it in the sense of definition #2 on this page. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=asshat ... It has been proven over and over in study after study that people learn better with positive reinforcement and patience... Now I understand that you can't afford everyone the personal touch...

In post #13 you have finally explained a**hat. If you look back to post #7, somebody did it already. You are better at talking than at listening.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes! You are making some valid points! But you are ignoring our feedback.

You seem very intelligent, educated and articulate. You are probably an important chap in your flesh-and-blood life, and used to people listening to you. Here, on this forum, you have joined as a n00b. It's a culture thing. School-kids who try to correct their teacher are impolite even if the teacher is wrong. Forum n00bs who try to make a SuperModerator grovel in apology are impolite regardless of the circumstances. Surely a clever chap like you knows how our culture works?

There is also the point that when an expert is willing to help you for free, you are unwise to antagonize him. Even if you think his style is a little blunt, you don't want to get him thinking, "Well stuff the lot of you!" If you annoy an expert, he might not feel in the mood to help the rest of us. Surely a clever chap like you understands being practical?

Now do you understand why I have been trying to put you down? It wasn't because I've taken an irrational dislike to you (which I haven't.) It wasn't because I was too stupid to understand the points that you were making (many of which are both sensible and well explained.) It was for the reasons given above.

Anyway, that's enough of me being pompous! Please share This Joke.

**ThailandForum** · 05-03-2010, 05:03 AM

**** I missed this thread, could have got in earlier whilst Chris was down and stuck the boot in a bit

now sadly it is too late as he is being praised

I have been a member of many webmaster forums and I have generally been banned for complaining about the absolutely amazing amount of spam and idiotic posts just to get a link in, the owners just see it as content so don't care and leave it up, on my forums, which are not webmaster forums any innaccurate crap just gets deleted, and if the poster is really dumb then they get blocked into one forum which is the idiots forum, I think Chris does a great job, obviously he hasn't got time to answer everybodies questions, but hell, at least he gets rid of most of the crap or dispels the lies and rumors.

**JValero** · 05-03-2010, 02:54 PM

C0ldf1re,

I saw the definition you gave in post #7, and if you were good at listening you would have seen that I was using the word in a different way as per definition #2 at the link I posted. So I have a guy who isn't a good listener telling me about listening, and a noob calling me a noob. Both the same guy, go figure. *scratches head*

Now again, I will address your point about experts giving advice, I apologize but my self worth does not allow me to act like a dog begging for scraps under my master's table. I am grateful for everything I learn here, but I shouldn't have to be beat down when I'm trying to be lifted up to a higher degree of understanding.

Now to save you all the time of telling me about how things work at large communities and me being a forum noob with barely any history. Trust me I understand I am a noob to this community and am fine with that. This is not my first forum community that I have joined, not by a long shot.

I do hope that the site admins will get a hold of what I am trying to say. Because whenever you have a moderator saying that they feel they need to treat others differently then they initially intended just to get their job done... well that is a cry for help and a cry for intervention on part of the admins.

Getting a flat tire doesn't mean you have to drive on the rims. It just means its time to pull over and fix it.

Lastly, I don't plan on leaving this community and I know it is great. On most forums I probably would have been banned or the forum would have been locked or deleted. I would like to thank chrishirst for allowing this to be discussed for a bit longer.

**ThailandForum** · 05-03-2010, 04:11 PM

^Your lucky it aint my call, I would ban you for being a **** (pretty sure that word wont work so think of another word for a male chicken).

**JValero** · 05-03-2010, 04:47 PM

So you would ban me for being a "male chicken" because I asked a moderator not to be a "male chicken?" Yep, you're right I'm lucky you're not in charge, in fact I think we all are.

**C0ldf1re** · 05-04-2010, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JValero

... I saw the definition you gave in post #7, and if you were good at listening you would have seen that I was using the word in a different way as per definition #2 at the link I posted...

You were right and I was wrong.

My first, and wrong, reaction was that my definition and your definition #2 were so close that it made no difference. I thought you were splitting hairs just for the sake of arguing.

I now see that your definition #2 was different in an important sense, and I agree with you in your use of the word.

There was a word that I used in a post now deleted, which I thought at the time was true. I now realise that I was wrong again, and wish to take it back.