General Discussions

**smoseley** · 09:44 AM

(From http://www.oculi.com/news/science-te...-viruses-43856)

Quote:

By definition, a virus is a software that is installed on your computer without your permission, runs unwanted processes (sometimes designed to take your money), and can't be closed normally (runs as a daemon), and is difficult to uninstall.

By this definition, I claim that Norton and McAfee have become viruses.

I recently bought a new laptop, and it came pre-installed with Norton AV for 30 days. The 30 day free trial just expired, and I realized that Norton AV is not just an AV.... it's a VIRUS. Norton's marketing deparment must have been taking cues from the Malware and Adware bots they've been removing over the last several years... because their software now mimics them almost to a tee.

Examples of how AV software titles are becoming viruses:

I never asked for Norton to be installed on my computer. It came pre-installed as a "demo" version without my permission. When the "demo" was about to expire, I started getting a popup app several times a day advising me that I should buy Norton. I can't close the app normally, and can only select from one of 2 options: 1) Upgrade now (recommended), or 2) Remind me again in 1 day. (SERIOUSLY?)
When I download and install Flash Player, it comes bundled with "McAfee Anti-Virus Scanner", which isn't an AV software as it would have you believe, but an AV-detection tool, which if you don't have McAfee installed, then advertises to you that you're in danger, and advises you to purchase their software.

These are the behavior of malware apps. Legitimate software companies should not be allowed to use such shady tactics to push their brand on you.

Certainly, I know that I need an AV software on my computer, but I'm offended that Norton and McAfee believe they have the right to install what can only be described as a virus on my computer to make me buy THEIR tools.

Using their fear-mongering malware approach to sales, these two companies have earned my disloyalty, and I hope yours as well.

**chrishirst** · 11-07-2010, 09:53 AM

Not really a "virus" as a virus is a self replicating app that is capable of being passed between hosts or "infecting" other host machines.

Neither Nortons or McAfee do this. But what they are guilty of is over agressive marketing and sales and are falling into the "scumware" category along with companies such as Gator or WhenU.
Microsoft have adopted similar tactics with pre-installs of Office on new machines on a 60 day "puppy dog" trial basis.

**Giselle** · 11-07-2010, 10:12 AM

Hello Steve,

I am not laughing at your post, no truer words have been spoken.

I have a computer technician friend who I purchase parts from and also ask advice. One day I asked him about anti-virus softwares, the first thing he mentioned was Norton and McAfee are the viruses and his tone of voice was a bit hot! He went on to say when a computer comes into the shop for repairs it's usually all bungled up with these anti-virus softwares and that's the first thing he removes.

The gentleman is very much against these two softwares, so I asked him what he recommends or uses, AVG was his response, I took his advice and installed the AVG anti virus software free edition, so far I haven't had any problems, and that's close to two years now.

**Private-I** · 11-07-2010, 12:04 PM

I think you're right on the money here mate. It's unacceptable that such big name cmpaies behave in this way. I'd have more respect for them if they acted better

**edgray** · 11-07-2010, 12:21 PM

"scumware?"

I like that term.

McAfee and Norton are not to be trusted. Macs have been virus free for years, yet they still sell their products aggressively to mac users. And I've seen both applications trash Macs.

**chrishirst** · 11-07-2010, 12:30 PM

I have always been an advocate of McAfee for network installs mainly because we could centralise the updating from our in-house FTP location and I wrote a FTP script that grabbed the latset update from the Networks Associates site.
So I always new the status of all machines and could monitor when each machine updated.
This also meant that we could "lab-rat" each update to see if it caused any "issues" with out configuration bfore it was released to the network. It was a common occurrence for updates to cause more problems that the virus did.

But for personal use McAfee was always "nagware", suggesting that you should upgrade to version XX at a cost of only nn.99.

Nortons was never the same after Symantec bought it out and got more and more about selling "units" rather than protecting the end user.

I don't personally like AVG because of its heavy resources footprint and very large update files, not very helpful in these days of the "mobile web" to require a 60Mb+ download several times a week.

I still recommend Avast, fairly small footprint and incremental updates of a few hundred kb each time.

**serandfae** · 11-07-2010, 04:36 PM

I'll second that recommendation for Avast, which I use on the home computer. I started using it because of its ability to do boot-level scans prior to the OS loading.

Another drawback of AVG is that it has jumped on the nagware/"service" units bandwagon like Norton and McAfee. Tried a trial, and the first thing it did was tell me I had to delete Avast. Deleted it instead.

Seems like you can't get a computer (that isn't custom built) that doesn't have pre-installed trial crap that the average user will either just leave there, or is unable to get rid of, or even if successful at deleting it leaves pieces behind. While the term "scumware" is applicable, I'd call it "cancerware" because of the behavior of attaching to the registry, hard to remove factor and leaving traces behind.

tim

**ChrisTurn** · 11-08-2010, 04:39 PM

So technically, its are viruses...I'm looking for AntiNorton and AntiMcAfee...

**Giselle** · 11-08-2010, 05:11 PM

Try AVG Or Avast, I have heard all good things about Avast besides here. I just happened to download AVG first....

**decadance** · 11-08-2010, 10:29 PM

HOw about Kaspersky? I used it almost 2 years and virus free..but I forbids myself accepting my coworkers to scan their storage disk on my machine.

Stingy? for computer matter of sake of virus free, yes!

**ChrisTurn** · 11-09-2010, 11:51 AM

A cheap one is a good one ? Hard to believe...

**chrishirst** · 11-09-2010, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisTurn

A cheap one is a good one ? Hard to believe...

http://www.webmaster-talk.com/comput...s-windows.html

**ChrisTurn** · 11-11-2010, 03:09 AM

I got it ! Thanks ! I'll buy one

**dominictucks** · 11-12-2010, 01:37 AM

I use Microsoft Security Essentials - it works very well for me and it is free.

**dougy** · 11-12-2010, 06:34 AM

Both go well for me..but al this was news to me!

**dagaul101** · 11-14-2010, 11:11 AM

I think thats a very far stretch

**smoseley** · 11-14-2010, 06:56 PM

I think it's a short stretch.

They may not be "viruses" per the traditional definition chris stated above, but they are, in fact Trojans, as they are unsolicited, unwanted, resident, and dormant on your computer, until they pop up hard-sales messages on a daily basis.

Which begs the question, can software be a Trojan and NOT a Virus?

**ddboards** · 11-14-2010, 08:57 PM

I hate them both, inefficient software, too many false-positives and the list goes on. Haven't had any AV or AS program on my computer in more then 5 years, no issues. A little knowledge goes a far way imo

**jamesjony2** · 11-16-2010, 04:31 AM

Antivirus software for your computer.I most important software you can buy that from being installed on my computer for Norton never. It came without prior permission.Here me a "demo" version, as is my problem because I set the computer to install the McAfee suite about a year old that I need and I will be the first one have had to switch.

**wayfarer07** · 09:25 AM

I use a very light bandwidth anti-virius software called Avira. It pops up an advertisement once a day asking me to buy the commercial version, but continues to update with the latest virus definitions regardless. I find this vastly preferable to Norton or McAfee for all of the above stated reasons. I don't want those two piece of software anywhere near my computer.