General Discussions

**gizmotron** · 01-30-2005, 02:08 PM

Now that both Windows & Mac OSX versions of the MTML browser, Intuition 1.2i, are done I would like to take some example websites and convert them to Intuition internet files. I would host these files in a folder at my website for viewing by readers here at this forum only. This is just a test to show off this new browser concept. I'm looking for websites that have more than one page and hopefully many pages. The point of Intuition is to send an entire searchable website with images in a single document.

If anyone here is interested in seeing this then please post your URL for the site you would like to see. If there is more than fifty pages, like a database driven website, then I will only display about 10 to 20 pages for the test.

Thanks for your interest,

Mark

**Minaki** · 01-30-2005, 03:18 PM

Quote:

The point of Intuition is to send an entire searchable website with images in a single document.

This doesn't seem like one of the best ideas to me... the good thing about the web is that you can more or less view exactly the info you want and not have to bother with anything else. OK it doesn't always work, but it's very close. Combining a whole site into one document kinda defeats the purpose - what if you just want one page?
People want to navigate through the information at speed and only see what they want to see. Thats why pages hve to be small, quick to download, well linked up, etc. If I was browsing the web and I was gonna follow a link, then saw it was an MTML page, I'd probably click the back button and go look elsewhere.

**gizmotron** · 01-30-2005, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minaki

This doesn't seem like one of the best ideas to me... the good thing about the web is that you can more or less view exactly the info you want and not have to bother with anything else. OK it doesn't always work, but it's very close.

There is so much here and if I read this correctly you don't understand my work and maybe never will.

This: "Combining a whole site into one document kinda defeats the purpose - what if you just want one page?"

The purpose of Intuition and MTML is to help the user find that one page through meaningful human readable connections. I'm currently creating an MTML version of the on-line e-Journal of gestalt, titled "Gestalt!" There are hundreds of authored articles concerning gestalt practice and concepts that are displayed in that journal. Each article will be placed on line with a master MTML file that contains abstracts for each article. Included in this will be a construct library for adding contextual and meaningful linking based on that construct. Each user will be able to read through the abstracts that are also tagged with the construct for the purpose of merging their own personal MTML files with information from individual articles relating to the parts of Gestalt! that they are interested in. You can't do that with IE or Netscape and take personal notes for each page if you wanted to.

...and this:
"People want to navigate through the information at speed and only see what they want to see."

Imagine being to retrieve contextual information based on a construct of meaningful terms. This information is brought to you in whole and displayed for you to consider the page of origin that by the way is searchable off line.

...and this:
"Thats why pages have to be small, quick to download, well linked up, etc."

MTML articles are compressed using open source zip and for the internet they are encoded as base64 for safe transmission over various servers and switches. They only get larger if they include embedded images. You can't share web-archives and merge them too with IE, Netscape, or Acrobat Reader.

...and this:
"If I was browsing the web and I was gonna follow a link, then saw it was an MTML page, I'd probably click the back button and go look elsewhere"

This is not about you surfing the internet with your usual browser and coming across an MTML file. It's about using Intuition to surf the more powerful MTML net. Researchers, teachers, and students will find this format quite useful, at least that's what they are saying when they see it demonstrated to them. They use it to gather not just to view.

**CasaPages** · 01-30-2005, 11:38 PM

so basically this wouldnt be of any good use to sites rich in multi-media content....since you would be downloading hundreds of sound graphics videos flash etc etc at once instead of as you browsed the site...am I right or am I wrong...this sounds like it is intended for research purposes and it does seem like it could be viable for that sector of the internet...this is if im at all correct

**gizmotron** · 01-31-2005, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CasaPages

so basically this wouldnt be of any good use to sites rich in multi-media content....since you would be downloading hundreds of sound graphics videos flash etc etc at once instead of as you browsed the site...am I right or am I wrong...this sounds like it is intended for research purposes and it does seem like it could be viable for that sector of the internet...this is if im at all correct

It could be, I have not bench marked it for high speed downloads. First off Intuition does not embed anything but .png, .jif, and .jpg images. If I were to combine multi-media I would link to it externally by sending the user to the large media files through their default browser like IE or something else.

Intuition can link to Quicktime media through hyperlinks for that purpose. The recommended way to do that is to send the larger media in a folder on the root level as the MTML file being opened, like on a CD.

On the other hand Intuition has features that other browsers don't like a personal notepad and message recorder for each page in an Intuition file.

When I want to do something that the internet does best in the HTML world then I just link to that. Things like e-commerce, web-forms, or the display of rich media are best handled by the default browser that the user now uses.

The cool thing about Intuition is that the user can copy any text from a website and import it into a topic of interest file that they are viewing. This file can also store topically related e-mails. It's not just a browser it's a storage device with a relational indexing parser.

The point is to enhance the existing internet where Intuition is best for that purpose. A relational site-map comes to mind as a simple example. If any group of interest wishes to create a blog of mergeable blogs then I guess that could take off some how. Intuition's merge capability is one of the reasons for using it in the first place.

There's one other reason for using it. It's possible to add MTML to HTML 4.0 websites that Intuition can link to and when the user clicks on those MTML links in an Intuition page a small portion of the HTML page will be downloaded, extracted as the relevant fragment and displayed as a report.

**CasaPages** · 01-31-2005, 11:13 AM

sounds cool...what about incorporating a HTML brwoser in the MTML browser or perhapes making the MTML browser an extension in FireFox...just think it would be easier for a user if everything was all in one package...

keep up the good work

**gizmotron** · 01-31-2005, 11:22 AM

I'm busy now!

I just received an email regarding the MTML invention and it being mentioned in a new book.

From my brother, the real brain in the family:

"Here, the textbook came out, and I received my copy of it at the office on Friday. I've been looking over it, and it is a truly superb book. It should lead the list in the field of Gestalt therapy for years to come, and it will likely end up in classrooms all over the world. It's published by a major textbook publisher in the UK and the USA.

In the first chapter on the history of Gestalt therapy, the final paragraph is about us. Here's what it says:

"Internet communication is dramatically increasing opportunities for contact and the further development of Gestalt therapy. Gestalt Global Corporation ( www.g-gej.org/gestaltglobal ), chaired by Philip Brownell, hosts network resources, on-line and hard copy publishing, discussion lists, innovative text-based technologies, and the online journal Gestalt!..." Then it goes on to quote an article I wrote in Gestalt! about the growth of Gestalt sites on the web. That bit about network resources and innovative text-based technologies - THAT'S YOU.

At the end of the book, Appendix A is called "Digital Gestalt" and it is a listing of online sites associated with Gestalt therapy. I wrote the historical narrative for it and got part credit for the chapter, so along with my own chapter I've got a descent presence in the book.

I'm going through and reading what the other authors wrote, and so far it's just fantastic! And I found tons of stuff to support my presentation in Antwerp and my proposed article for the International Gestalt Journal ("The Neglected Polarity in Gestalt Therapy: Eastern Philosophy and Western Spirituality)"

It's pretty dry reading, Gestalt!, but I'm going to create an entire Intuition version of this e-journal that includes a construct library (dictionary) already agreed upon by that same gestalt community. This will serve as one form of an example of using Intuition.
( http://www.g-gej.org/index.html )

Thanks for your interest.

**gizmotron** · 01-31-2005, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CasaPages

sounds cool...what about incorporating a HTML brwoser in the MTML browser or perhapes making the MTML browser an extension in FireFox...just think it would be easier for a user if everything was all in one package...

keep up the good work

I have been resisting that idea. I could add the IE engine for Windows and the Safari engine for Mac OSX if I wanted to. Instead of a hyperlink opening your favorite browser of choice it would use those browser engines to open a window in Intuition. I guess I'm trying to have a file format like PDF that is also an internet browser for the unique file format and that has its own self contained search engine. The right way to integrate this would be to have the browsers download the MTML file and have it open in Intuition much like .pdf file do now. That would require adding code to all the top browsers. Intuition has only just begun and I don't have the resources to get big companies to take a look at it.

You are seeing the first look. I chose this web-master forum just to see expert's reactions to a new world of possibilities. I was around when Netscape Navigator 3 and HTML 3 where the standard. I watched as innovations were driven by creative webmasters of the time. That sort of adventurous spirit is why I chose this group. You're all in my crazy lab...

**gizmotron** · 01-31-2005, 06:02 PM

OK, for those that want to test something:

If you have the latest version of Intuition 1.2i then run it. After it opens use the File / Search Intuition Net menu item to open the search engine. Type in gestalt then click go.

The second link is to an example file of the first journal published. It's about 1 meg and will take about five minutes to download on a dial-up connection. This is just an example. A smaller master file can be created with download links to each individual article for every article in the journal. This will allow the users to cherry pick topics of interested and to merge them into their own master file.

If you select the open option then you will get the construct library (dictionary) with it. In this example there are links to the existing journal and then there is one link to the first MTML version of Journal 1-1 of Gestalt. (See page one & two of this file)

I used Intution to import then edit this strait from the internet. This file contains embedded images.

**Minaki** · 01-31-2005, 06:07 PM

Quote:

open in Intuition much like .pdf file do now. That would require adding code to all the top browsers.

Or you could take the easy route and learn how to register a new file type in the registry. Or if you want it to opin -within- IE, try OLE.

**gizmotron** · 02-01-2005, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minaki

Or you could take the easy route and learn how to register a new file type in the registry. Or if you want it to opin -within- IE, try OLE.

I have registered the new file type in the registry with Intuition, check it and see for yourself. I also have the MTML creator codes for Mac & Mac OSX for MTML. If you double click on an Intuition file that will open the clicked file in Intuition.

I tried the embed object technique and IE requires a needed plug-in for Intuition to run inside IE.

Do you have example code of embedding an .exe in a webpage so that a plug-in would not be required.? This is funny in a way. I came from shockwave to real so that the user would not need to go get a plug-in.

**gizmotron** · 02-02-2005, 07:41 PM

For anyone following this topic, there's a new version for Intuition, it's Intuition 1.2i.2

This new version fixes a few things involving importing images and later exporting them as embedded documents.

Download it here:
http://www.gizmotron.org/intuition/download.html

**CasaPages** · 02-02-2005, 10:34 PM

I just mgiht have to download this thing and see what its all about

**gizmotron** · 02-03-2005, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CasaPages

I just mgiht have to download this thing and see what its all about

Hang on one day please. I've been working with one of my beta testers and we discovered a weakness in the image capture / link transformation function. It seems that when an image tag-set has the width and hight before the source attribute in a tag-set the image will not capture. So I'm trying to correct that today. Also on the Windows version image embedding won't work when a single page option is selected for export.

Another thing to take note of is that you will be one of the first users so there is no discussion group to help you learn about creating Intuition / MTML files. I will try to answer your questions but I have learned that if the new user were to look at a page's source ( Edit / Edit this page menu ) that you can learn about how I did it.

**gizmotron** · 02-03-2005, 08:32 PM

OK, I got it done and up for download.
The latest version is Intuition 1.2i.3

Remember this thing was designed to nab XHTML but it does bring in a lot of HTML and its images. The primary purpose is to create MTML files that are formatted for Intuition that other Intuition users can download.

Have fun...

**gizmotron** · 02-04-2005, 03:13 PM

Steps to create an Intuition website and add it to the search engine.

1.) Create an MTML / Intuition file.

2.) Chose Edit / Export
a.) Select the third option (from page to page)
b.) select to include images
c.) select web ready

3.) Now export and name your file
Note all Intuition web ready files should end with .txt

4.) Put your file online at your server with an FTP client

5.) Send an e-mail to me with the URL and a short one-line (25 words) description. Add a few keywords that you would like to have it come up in the search engine with.
( gizmotron@earthlink.net )

I will check it out and list it in the search engine for you. When this search engine grows I will add an on-line database management system to handle large traffic.

I just added another gestalt example at intuition search engine / "gestalt" / go

**gizmotron** · 02-06-2005, 03:39 PM

Here is how to import a web page into Intution:
http://www.gizmotron.org/intuition/e...ort/index.html

**CasaPages** · 02-07-2005, 01:35 PM

If I ever get some time, there simply just isnt enough hours in the day.

**Brent** · 02-07-2005, 10:31 PM

I would like to see http://www.websocials.com used as an example! Can you do that for me ?

**gizmotron** · 02-08-2005, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent

I would like to see http://www.websocials.com used as an example! Can you do that for me ?

This is a database driven website with heavy image mapping and would not be a good use of using Intuition. Sorry.