General Discussions

**adrian88** · 07:16 PM

As i see it there is nothing wrong with an estate tax. it is not like they take all of your money just some of it. Your family still gets to get 2 million untaxed and then taxes apply. the money is taxed exclusively for education and only applies for roughly 250 wealthy households. therefore obviously it does not effect you or me. we only stand to benefit. since it goes to education it indirectly benefits us. why should 250 households get tax relief when ultimately public education would suffer. The common citizens would end up getting a tax increase while 250 household get a tax break. hardly fair don't you think. we have a social and moral responsibility to make sure everyone has a decent education and if 250 household have to spend a portions their millions for social good is that really all that bad. granted they lose some money but they still are gonna be rich. tell me what you think.
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My response is as follows:

You must be kidding me!? Sure fact... "is not like they take all of your money just some of it." That's easy if your inheritance is tangible like cash, stocks or bonds. What if you inherit a family business or a real estate portfolio, those things aren't tangible. Many families have invested every penny and bit of their sweat into running a successful business. Hypothetically, let's say my parents die and I happen to inherit the business. But guess what, the government is going to make me sell the business at a loss to some multinational corporation because I have to cough up this so-called estate tax. My family had worked their lives for nothing.

Further, just because this may not affect you shouldn't be a good reason to forget about morals. Another hypothetical situation:

My parents made some money and paid taxes on that money. (That's fair).

Then in event of their death...

The government comes and tries to steal more money... guess what... it's because they became deceased.

Where's the moral in stealing money from someone whose already suffering from the death of loved ones.

Double taxation in general isn't fair. Where's the American ideal of capitalism and free market??? Double taxation just leads us closer to a socialist society.

There are other ways to raise money for public education. Government funds are being abused daily. Besides, public education isn't in any trouble. Since that is an unrelated issue, it will not be discussed in this forum.

Money isn't the real issue. It's the principles of the estate tax that deeply terrorizes me.

http://noestatetax.blogspot.com
http://noestatetax.org

**colbyt** · 12-18-2006, 11:48 PM

Not sure whom you were quoting in your post.

The Estate tax is one of the most evil of taxes for all the reasons you posted. Income tax has already been paid on that money. Are you going to punish someone for being smart enough to accumulate a little instead of spending it? It is nothing but a socialistic redistribution of wealth.

You said real estate. I would like personalize that a little more. Let's call that real estate the family farm. It has been in the family for 2 or 3 generations. Close to town the price has now increased dramatically. What great grandpa and grandma bought for a few dollars down and their lifes work may now be worth some serious money.

The family may be forced to sell just to pay the taxes.

**adrian88** · 12-19-2006, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colbyt

Not sure whom you were quoting in your post.

The Estate tax is one of the most evil of taxes for all the reasons you posted. Income tax has already been paid on that money. Are you going to punish someone for being smart enough to accumulate a little instead of spending it? It is nothing but a socialistic redistribution of wealth.

You said real estate. I would like personalize that a little more. Let's call that real estate the family farm. It has been in the family for 2 or 3 generations. Close to town the price has now increased dramatically. What great grandpa and grandma bought for a few dollars down and their lifes work may now be worth some serious money.

The family may be forced to sell just to pay the taxes.

i like your response!

**Republikin** · 12-19-2006, 01:40 PM

In general I would agree with you but I would like to take issue with one point in particular...

Quote:

Double taxation in general isn't fair. Where's the American ideal of capitalism and free market??? Double taxation just leads us closer to a socialist society.

Double taxation is not neccesarily unfair. The fact that we live in a capitalistic society has a few special implications when it comes to daily operation. Just as any corporation must keep cash flow steadily increasing in order to cover day to day costs and still provide a dividend to it's shareholders; so must the government keep cash flowing in order to cover daily operating costs and provide dividends to the citizens in the form of social services such as public schools, the police, fire departments, etc. Cash flow is one of the most important principles in capitalism and it must be maintained.

One other important reason that continual taxation of money and property is neccesary is so that no single entity or individual can amass so much of either so as to take control away from the people (their elected officials) by shear force. Hypothetically, if Bill Gates was not taxed he could easily have accumulated far more wealth than he currently has, enough to drain the economy and shift power to himself by default.

I think you should really learn more about how our economy really works before making such rash statements as "Double taxation just leads us closer to a socialist society". Taxation, even progressive taxation is very capitalistic.

**adrian88** · 12-19-2006, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republikin

In general I would agree with you but I would like to take issue with one point in particular...

Double taxation is not neccesarily unfair. The fact that we live in a capitalistic society has a few special implications when it comes to daily operation. Just as any corporation must keep cash flow steadily increasing in order to cover day to day costs and still provide a dividend to it's shareholders; so must the government keep cash flowing in order to cover daily operating costs and provide dividends to the citizens in the form of social services such as public schools, the police, fire departments, etc. Cash flow is one of the most important principles in capitalism and it must be maintained.

One other important reason that continual taxation of money and property is neccesary is so that no single entity or individual can amass so much of either so as to take control away from the people (their elected officials) by shear force. Hypothetically, if Bill Gates was not taxed he could easily have accumulated far more wealth than he currently has, enough to drain the economy and shift power to himself by default.

I think you should really learn more about how our economy really works before making such rash statements as "Double taxation just leads us closer to a socialist society". Taxation, even progressive taxation is very capitalistic.

Double taxation... as in when your parents paid for the tax already and you have to effing pay it again... is not fair. That was my point.

I'm not saying double taxation for C-Corporations is unfair, though I do feel that way.

Just to get my point across.. Hong Kong is the best place in the world based on social, economic and political aspects. It is also the closest to Adam Smith's philosophy of laissez-faire in this world.

**Republikin** · 12-19-2006, 02:15 PM

Don't get all worked up, it's just a conversation.

Quote:

Double taxation... as in when your parents paid for the tax already and you have to effing pay it again... is not fair. That was my point.

Are you and your parents seperate adults? Did your parents make a gain and then did you make a gain? Was it really one seemless transaction? Furthermore, your argument is poor (no I'm not trying to attack you). Just because you feel that something is true does not neccesarily mean that others will agree. If you want to convince me that it is unfair then do so with meaningful facts not rhetoric.

And how exactly does Hong Kong and Adam Smith's philosophy get your point accross? Just because Hong Kong favors truly free economic trade amongst it's citizens does not mean they are free from taxation.

Oh, and just to be thorough, Adam Smith never used the term Laissez-faire. It was only coined later by seperate economists as a way to define his theories. Furthermore, the theory you are refering too does not state, at least anywhere that I could find, that double taxation is unfair. In fact, I don't think it has anything to do with taxation at all, only how people will provide their own checks and balances in a free market economy.