General Discussions

**Republikin** · 02-10-2007, 10:12 PM

Is it just me or am I the only one who feels like screaming at the top of their lungs when they see at least 40% of the threads posted here on a daily basis, gibberish that can hardly be understood due to poor grammar and English skills?

Is it so hard to download FF2.0 which has a spell checker? I mean come on. I pass up so many threads here, just because I can't understand them in the first place.

**KML9870** · 10:49 PM

I'm very big on proper spelling and grammar (just ask my kids), however we have a lot of members that are not from English speaking countries. We also have some very young members. I have recently noticed quite an increase in our teenage members who may not be very concerned with grammar and typing errors. (I say this because I have two teens, not as an insult to teens in general) As for members from non English speaking countries, I have seen quite a few that I think have done a very good job of grasping enough of the language to communicate.

**stOx** · 02-11-2007, 08:27 AM

me lyk spelin n, grummar.

If i have to read a post more than twice because of spelling i tend to not bother.
Spelling errors and typos are ok, But "txt spk" really annoys me.

If English isn't the posters first language i try a little harder to understand, Because the way i see it, No matter how bad their English is it's a lot better than my ability to post in thier language.

It would be nice to have a feature on forums where if people type in txt spk they get a message
"You appear to be typing like an idiot, Please go back and try again"

**Republikin** · 02-11-2007, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stOx

It would be nice to have a feature on forums where if people type in txt spk they get a message
"You appear to be typing like an idiot, Please go back and try again"

That would be fantastic, insulting, but fantastic.

I am much more lenient on non-native speakers as it takes a while to learn any language however, txt spk and even little annoyances like a lack of capitalization or proper use of commas really just annoys me.

Language is no different than a programming language; it involves rules and standards so that everyone will be on the same page. I'm sure that most people here who write poorly would probably be able to give a great argument for the use of standards in web development.

**James B** · 02-11-2007, 11:49 AM

Hi

I will be the first to admit that my spelling and grammar is not at the top of the class. I would love to be able to write great books and win awards. Its not going to happen though.

I have downloaded the spell check thing but sometimes the way I read things a few days after posting is not what I thought I had written.

Maybe I should just give up trying. But no I would rather be known as someone who cant spell but give what he's doing a dam good go than someone who got fed up with being put down all the time and turned to crime.

I know your not having an issue with me personally but does it really matter that much if someone gets a sentence wrong or spells the odd word wrong.

Personally on a forum like this it really dont worry me. theres far more important things in life to worry about.

I was doing really well at school till there were some bad personal issues. It did effect me but I'm not going to use it as an excuse. One day very soon I'm hoping to be building a few sites and hopefully making a little bit of money on the side from my day job.

Hopefully if I try hard enough I can do it. I'm also paying someone at work in beers to read through my sites to make sure they make sense.

By the way I'm English 30 and male. I try the best and thats all I can do

James B

**Republikin** · 02-11-2007, 12:24 PM

I don't get so worried about the odd misspelling or grammatical error. It is the type of people that don't even try that bugs me. The type that write every post as a run on sentence with no capitalization and plenty of "shortcut" words. I think that it shows a lack of caring that probably spills over into other areas of their character.

**aldor** · 02-11-2007, 12:36 PM

The written word is a means of communication, if the reader understands what the writer intended then I'm increasingly coming round to the point of view that the writer has achived his object. The problem is when the writer is so far away from acceptable usage that the meaning becomes unclear or ambiguous.
However I would say that personally I make an effort to have well formed English that has correct spelling.

**stOx** · 02-11-2007, 01:09 PM

The ultimate goal is to communicate something to another person, And if that is achieved then it has ultimately done it's job. Though making it easy to understand is also a part of communication.

**ADAM Web Design** · 02-11-2007, 01:44 PM

I find continual spelling and grammatical errors annoying as well; however, a spell checker just isn't the answer here. It can only catch so much.

For example, some of the things a spill chucker won't catch:

1) The previous sentence.
2) "I can't here you."
3) "Were r u writing from?" (Most spell checkers consider "r" and "u" words for some stupid reason.)

Mind you, the forums are far from the only place I see this sort of thing. In relative terms, WT isn't bad at all in that regard. At least no one here uses the faux-word "shud", as in "Shud I be doing this?" That's the one that really irritates me.

IT'S SHOULD. S-H-O-U-L-D. SHOULD. IT'S NOT THAT HARD TO FIGURE OUT.

**vangogh** · 02-11-2007, 03:46 PM

As long as I can understand what's being written I don't mind misspellings or typos. I can even deal with a certain amount text speak. If it's overdone then it does annoy me. When it becomes hard to understand I tend not to reply.

I think a lot members here aren't native English speakers and I'll always take a little more time to understand something they've written. As Matt said they write better English than I do any of their native languages. If anything I'm impressed with how they do write instead of harping on what they might get wrong.

Running all your sentences together into one paragraph has to go. Nothing is more annoying to me or harder to read. Get your thought out in a sentence or two and start a new paragraph.

Adam's right about spell checkers. I know people love them now and can't live without them, but I think they're one of the biggest contributers to the poor grammar we see everywhere.

Sure you spelled "there" right, but didn't you mean to use "their" or "they're" instead? Or maybe to, too, two.

Spell checkers have made everyone lazy in regards to grammar. The thought seems to be as long as your spell checker doesn't complain it has to be right. I do use them, but only to look for typos.

**ForrestCroce** · 02-12-2007, 12:25 AM

I have a spelling checker
I disk covered four my PC.
It plane lee marks four my revue
Miss steaks aye can knot see. Eye ran this poem threw it.
Your sure real glad two no.
Its very polished in its weigh,
My checker tolled me sew.
A checker is a blessing.
It freeze yew lodes of thyme.
It helps me right awl stiles two reed,
And aides me when aye rime.
Each frays comes posed up on my screen
Eye trussed too bee a joule.
The checker pours o'er every word
To cheque sum spelling rule.
Bee fore wee rote with checkers
Hour spelling was inn deck line,
Butt now when wee dew have a laps,
Wee are not maid too wine.
And now bee cause my spelling
Is checked with such grate flare,
There are know faults in awl this peace,
Of nun eye am a wear.
To rite with care is quite a feet
Of witch won should be proud,
And wee mussed dew the best wee can,
Sew flaws are knot aloud.
That's why eye brake in two averse
Caws Eye dew want too please.
Sow glad eye yam that aye did bye
This soft wear four pea seas.

**sukantab** · 02-12-2007, 12:32 AM

I agree that there are non-english speaking people who writes gibberish english. But I find more english-speaking people writing words like txt, spk, shud etc. I see a tendency to remove the vowels out of the word. Does it make a sentence/word easily pronouncable? I doubt...
Spell checkers are OK, but I think if most of the people emphasize on our basic grammar, at least 50% of such posts will not come.
I doubt how many people will think to do a spell check before posting. Does it do an on the fly spell check(during typing) In FF2.0? If yes, then it will be a good one to use.

**Republikin** · 02-12-2007, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Does it do an on the fly spell check(during typing) In FF2.0? If yes, then it will be a good one to use.

Yep. As you type it automatically checks spelling like word. It's not an end all do all solution as only education will be that but it helps; especially someone who is just learning English, if they know that a word they typed is not spelled correctly immediately they may feel compelled to examine why and continuously learn in that manner.

**ADAM Web Design** · 02-12-2007, 11:15 AM

I've adopted another solution of sorts to this on another board (and to a small extent on this one), although I haven't been able to fully plot it out yet.

When I see someone who really struggles with the English language, I call them out on it and suggest they take some night school courses or something of that nature. What I'd like to be able to do is to say "go to somesite.com, since they have some really good ESL tutorials" or something of that nature, but I don't know any good somesite.coms that serve such a purpose.

If we could find those, that would help with the educational aspect.

**atwitt57** · 02-12-2007, 01:54 PM

well when i misspell and have poor grammer i just dont feel like going back and changeing it. so i let it slide and hope people understand. but if u check some of my post i type in a mix of txt, english,and 1337 so just say if your lost in my post

**InfTekHosting** · 02-12-2007, 02:57 PM

Yep, the English language is butchered on a daily basis, both spoken and written. Those who can write well are a dieing breed.

**vangogh** · 02-12-2007, 03:03 PM

Forrest that's a great poem and a perfect example of the wonderful things spell checkers have contributed to the language.

atwitt like I said before I don't mind as long as it's not overdone. I'll always forgive typos. They're going to happen and I know I do it myself all the time.

A little bit of txt or IM speak or whatever name you want to give it doesn't bother me either, but if you use too much of it and I have to spend any extra time deciphering it there's a good chance I may just move on to another post or thread. Is that a big deal? Maybe not, though it might be if I have the answer to a question you're asking.

I personally don't care much for 1337 speak in part because I find so many people using it differently. I don't see how it makes typing quicker or enables communication. I also think the true 1337 hackers don't use it at all.

I think communication is the important thing in all of this, but you should always be aware of the the impression you give to others in the way you type. I think most will see an over abundance of txt, IM and 1336 speak as signs of immaturity. I'm not saying they are, but I think that's how most will perceive them.

**Kyrnt** · 02-12-2007, 03:40 PM

Republikin,

I apologize for coming late to the thread, but I agree that the trend toward deteriorating English skills (both written and spoken) is a serious problem. The interesting part of all of this is that very often the poor writers are the very ones asking for help on complicated problems. How can one accurately communicate the issues they are experiencing if they do not fully engage the language or at least resort to its proper use? I cannot tell you how many posts I have attempted to answer only to have the original poster stop and yell at me that I was not answering his question properly. And yet when the question is reviewed, it is largely incoherent rubbish.

Now Kandi makes a good point about native speakers, but I am going to set that aside for now because I think it is safe to say that at least 95% of the posts (not posters) on WT are English speakers. It is my experience that poor grammar, spelling and a lack of coherence are almost exclusively attributable to laziness and an identification with a mantra "that's good enough for someone to understand."

Modern society is made up of the most complicated problems in the history of man (though not here on WT). Why would we deprive ourselves of our most powerful and effective communications tool in an attempt to describe the intricacies of these problems and their solutions?

**Republikin** · 02-12-2007, 03:47 PM

Kyrnt, I was going to give you some talkupation for that well put, well thought out response however, it appears that there is a limit on the amount of talkupation one can give within 24 hours.

**Kyrnt** · 02-12-2007, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republikin

Kyrnt, I was going to give you some talkupation for that well put, well thought out response ....

That's alright, Republikin. I don't know what to do with it once I've received it. Can I use it to get cash?