General Discussions

**DaveMo~** · 05-25-2007, 03:50 PM

May the truth be known.... A lot of folks can't understand how we came to have an oil shortage here in our country. Well, there's a very simple answer.

First, nobody bothered to check the oil. And we just didn't know we were getting low.

The reason for that is purely geographical.

Our OIL is located in

Alaska
California
Coastal Florida
Coastal Louisiana
Kansas
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
Texas

However, our DIPSTICKS are located in Washington, DC!!!

Any Questions???

Dave

**Village Idiot** · 05-25-2007, 09:08 PM

Hippies are still stopping us from going in alaska, the rest doesnt meet demand. We get most of our oil from exxon, who can charge what they want, checked their stock lately?

**ForrestCroce** · 05-26-2007, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan1088352

Hippies are still stopping us from going in alaska, the rest doesnt meet demand. We get most of our oil from exxon, who can charge what they want, checked their stock lately?

Uh ... if we started exploring for oil tomorrow in Alaska, it would be five years before the production was online. Until then, no help at all from the drilling, and once we start tapping the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge ( which is named "wildlife refuge" for a reason ) that still won't be enough to meet demand. Alaska is no Saudi Arabia.

It's not only the hippies who understand skyrocketing global demand and constant or dwindling supply isn't a problem we're going to solve by going through what gas is left underground more quickly. Gasoline is obeying the rules of the free market. What's at stake is a lot more than our feeling of entitlement to cheap gas.

**Republikin** · 05-26-2007, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan1088352

Hippies are still stopping us from going in alaska, the rest doesnt meet demand. We get most of our oil from exxon, who can charge what they want, checked their stock lately?

In 2006 Exxon's total market share in California (I'm using this as a representation of the US, forgive me but I can't find the data nationally) was only 6% (Source: http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/st...ket_share.html) I believe that it is even less nationwide however I can't be positive without a source.

Furthermore, with so many oil companies competing in the free market it is highly unlikely they are all getting together to fix prices. Also, I tend to agree with Forrest's statement; the problem is not just here in the US, it is that global demand has risen sharply over the last decade, especially in China and India.

**seolman** · 05-26-2007, 05:23 PM

Even if more oil is found a major international problem is refining capacity. Much of the oil produced today has a very high sulpher content and is difficult to refine. Not all refineries can handle the heavy sulpher crude. The best low sulpher crude comes from places such as Libya, where years of isolation and equipment neglect have resulted in a limited capacity to deliver. More refineries can handle low sulpher crude and the supply of refined products would rise if more of this type of crude were available.

Until then I think we can expect prices to remain high.

**Learning Newbie** · 05-26-2007, 05:30 PM

I really can't believe that I agree with a republican here.

But I have to say that even if we've butted heads before, you're someone who's consistent in your beliefs, and takes the time to think them through. Which is too rare, especially in republicans. Just kidding, I had to throw that in there, but don't mean it, my party is just as bad.

Now it's time to echo th sentiment that we aren't making any more oil, we're burning off the supply, and suddenly other countries want gas, too, and can pay more than we can for it. Remember when CNOOC tried to buy Chevron, outbid the leading US companies by two or three billion dollars, and was blocked for national security reasons? China has a pretty good relationship with Sudan and Nigeria because they can buy cheap oil there ( building the infrastructure to drill it ), so while we block them from buying our gas, they're beating us to the punch around the world.

All of this is why gas is expensive. It has nothing to do with not taking a shower, experimenting with drugs, i ching, and Bob Marley, patchouli oil and tye-die. When a Republican agrees on economic grounds, and says "this is reality" it's not hippies abusing their power over the rest of us.

Getting back to Alaska, have you ever heard "This Land is Your Land?" America has bountiful wilderness and amazing biodiversity, and this is a part of what makes us great. We're not going to sacrifice the last of our real-life frontier heritage for short term gain amounting to a drop in the ocean.

**vangogh** · 05-26-2007, 06:46 PM

And let's keep in mind that even if we did take whatever oil Alaska will give that only delays the same inevitable problem. Oil resources are finite. At some point they will run out.

There are certainly issues still to be worked out with alternative sources of energy, but they would seem to be the better approach. The sun and the wind among others are providing energy whether we decide to make use of it or not. If the sun is going to shine on your house anyway why not collect as much as that energy as you can and make use of it?

I realize that at the moment there are issues with alternative sources of energy, but I'd think investing in them is preferable to looking for one more source of oil we could mine for a time before it too runs out.

**Republikin** · 05-26-2007, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

I really can't believe that I agree with a republican here.

But I have to say that even if we've butted heads before, you're someone who's consistent in your beliefs, and takes the time to think them through. Which is too rare, especially in republicans. Just kidding, I had to throw that in there, but don't mean it, my party is just as bad.

Thanks, although I should point out that your not agreeing with a republican. I actually register with no party affiliation (rather than independent). My handle is just a hybrid of my belief system (notice it's republikin not republican). To me it represents the fact that I am very conservative however, I do not follow party politics, I used to, and looking through the archives here will prove that (back when I went by the handle cptnwinky).

Anyways, with that out of the way, I appreciate your point of view even if we don't agree at times. I am certainly not an evangelical nut job or liberal hippy scum (I should write a comic book about these two) and I don't view you as such either.

**DaveMo~** · 05-27-2007, 03:45 AM

Wow! This really got kinda' serious, especially since the first post had a punchline. LoL!

It's all about alternative fuels and energy!

Dave

**ForrestCroce** · 05-27-2007, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMo~

It's all about alternative fuels and energy!

Dave

Yeah, great discussion.

Anyone who lives in a city should seriously consider a bike as part of their transit picture. It's fun, MUCH easier to park, already covered by your medical insurance, wakes you up more than a cup o' joe, and did I mention it's fun? I pay $20 a month for a membership at 24 Hour Fitness, and hate going to the gym; biking instead of fighting traffic is great cardio and strengthens the legs. So there's a lot less I need to go to the gym for, and I get out quicker.

But the best reason of all is that I can bike across Seattle and back a lot faster on two wheels than in four.

Getting back to Alaska, this is sort of a proxy argument from the California/Nevada border, but we really don't want to give things like this up for a nickel off at the pump:

**vangogh** · 05-28-2007, 05:56 PM

I agree with you Forrest on all counts. I too live in a town where 2 wheels sometimes gets you across town faster than 4 wheels. It has the added benefit of getting you in shape too.

Your picture is one of the best reasons I can think of not to drill in Alaska. People tend to forget what might be lost if we do.

**Sczzy** · 05-29-2007, 09:35 AM

We have an abundance of oil but nowhere to refine it. That is where the problem lies.

We would not have to drill in Alaska (any time soon). There are plenty of spots off the coast of Florida where we are, already.

There are too many laws that are preventing us from drilling and refining so in essence we would not be able to be a self contained country, plus if we stopped buying or selling our own oil people would starve and there countries would go broke. This would cause way more terrorist states.

The oil companies and the countries that we buy our oil from know that we are willing to pay the price. As long as the American people are willing to pay at the pump the price will continually keep increasing.

**kensei** · 05-29-2007, 08:05 PM

what a pain in the *** these day! High-price fuel really makes me broke..

I have to drive almost 35 miles to work everyday and in Las Vegas, there're no subways or trains..taking buses to work? unless you want to wake up earlier in the moning and spend 1 to 2 hours on the buses T_T.

**Learning Newbie** · 05-29-2007, 08:29 PM

Instead of taking trains that don't exist, why don't you move closer to work? Do you actually enjoy driving 70 miles aday?

Gas prices aren't going down, ever. This is a graph of $$$ over time : /

**forumer** · 09:31 PM

Yes, the gas is ridiculous now a days. but I guess the demand is higher for the holidays, and everyone traveling or whatnot, so the government has to raise the prices.

**kensei** · 05-29-2007, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

Instead of taking trains that don't exist, why don't you move closer to work? Do you actually enjoy driving 70 miles aday?

Gas prices aren't going down, ever. This is a graph of $$$ over time : /

Nope, 35 miles mean back and forth. It's still a long way though. I have no choice anyway.

Since the war started, gas' price always increases T_T. I think I should change a hybrid car

**seolman** · 05-29-2007, 10:57 PM

Let's be frank (or bob)...the oil companies are about to enjoy another HUGE windfall and then make excuses why it wasn't their fault they made squillions of dollars profit... hmmm...wait a minute... do I have any spare change to put into oil stocks right now?

**Republikin** · 05-29-2007, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forumer

Yes, the gas is ridiculous now a days. but I guess the demand is higher for the holidays, and everyone traveling or whatnot, so the government has to raise the prices.

Your original post (the one I received by email) was a little more concise however, you edited it for whatever reason (perhaps it was the inconsistencies). Now, when you say that the government has some control over the gas prices, and it having to do with the "holiday season" I am starting to take your opinion less seriously. The government does not set the gas prices, period.

seolman, I love your comments but I am afraid I have to stir the hornets nest just a little. While I do find it a little fishy that the oil companies make record profits (according to some experts) yet are only responding to demand. I find innuendo to be a poor form of argument. I have no direct proof that they are fixing the price but I can't help but examine reason. The idea that they are all getting together to fix prices in order to make bigger profits seems illogical (even though it seems logical in the sense that public companies goal is to increase shareholder equity).

**Learning Newbie** · 05-30-2007, 12:12 AM

If Exxon was raising their prices for no reason, BP would be rich.

High demand products have high prices. Just like luxury cars.

**seolman** · 05-30-2007, 12:25 AM

I'm definitelty not pushing a conspiracy theory. No doubt 'individually' the oil companies are self-serving, and what executive wouldn't be when the competition is capitalizing on a market condition? Similar profit results builds up 'conspiracy' theories but I don't buy into them.

If there really was an oil shortage people would be eating eachother. Imagine New York City with no way to transport food into the city. Now multiply that by all other major US cities and you see the potential chaos that would ensue. For decades, so called 'oil shortages' have come and gone and always the loser is the consumer at the pump.

I am enough of a capitalist to appreciate shareholder value. However I don't believe there is an oil crisis, I believe there is a shortage of refined products. I worked for years in the Middle East and I keep in touch with a number of petroleum execs. A good buddy of mine runs a US based oil and gas company. Even with my limited contacts I've been approached by some desperate crude oil brokers asking if I know anyone who can refine their raw product for them (interest is particularly diesel). Short answer is: no. Refineries are maxed out right now with no relief in sight.