General Discussions

**highanddry** · 10:36 AM

I recently decided to set up an entertainment site with content generated by vistors who submit various forms of media. The problem I am having, is that I can't advertise my site for people to submit when it is mostly empty.

I have been trying to e-mail people invitations for me to feature their work, but I get the feeling that they are going to my page, seeing it empty and not responding. Based on my stats, this seems to be the case.

How can I build content (art,photography,video and writing) when I'm in this limbo-state?

I have a lot of experience with design and writing, but little experience with content building, but I don't think it is a problem where people are looking at it and not responding because the design is bad.

On a side note, if anyone has work that they would like to have featured, I would gladly review it. www.youfeatured.com (have recieved a few submissios)

**Learning Newbie** · 06-29-2007, 12:51 PM

What's the difference between your site and an article gallery or stock photo site? Once you answer that one, you've got the key to how you want to market your site, especially in the beginning.

**highanddry** · 06-29-2007, 01:11 PM

well 1. Its not an article gallery or a stock photo site. It is a user submitted, editor selected content site.

2. That is answered on the front page, clearly.

3. About marketing. That is not the problem. The problem is how to market an unfinished site that is based on user submitted content, when people do not want to submit to an empty site.

Thanks for the response I guess

**Learning Newbie** · 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highanddry

well 1. Its not an article gallery or a stock photo site. It is a user submitted, editor selected content site.

I see you saying that, but having actually visited your site, I really don't understand the difference.

I'm trying to help you. I don't know much about photos, but if I did, why would I put them up on your site, instead of my own or the 10,000 picture hosting sites that are already out there? It's obviously not an article directory per se, but again, it's a database of text snippets people wrote to post there. What's the actual difference that separates it from an article dir?

Simply put, you're asking for people to give you free content to be able to promote your site, and the types of things you're asking for tend to be copyrighted. What benefit are you offering people to make that an attractive proposition?

Edit: I personally like to write about things I find interesting (even if most other people don't) and noticed we have a couple of people who do pretty good photos on this forum (Republican and Forrest), so if you can answer the questions I brought up, the main thing is that will help you optimize your site better, but you might also convince one of them to get on board, or someone who writes. You really don't have to convince me, I'm just bringing this stuff up because if I had something worthwhile to your site, these are the concerns that might stop me, even more than the placeholders for future content. You can take or leave my advice, but you should understand it's not to pick on you, it's to give you ideas that could help you reach your goal.

**highanddry** · 06-29-2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:

I'm trying to help you. I don't know much about photos, but if I did, why would I put them up on your site, instead of my own or the 10,000 picture hosting sites that are already out there? It's obviously not an article directory per se, but again, it's a database of text snippets people wrote to post there. What's the actual difference that separates it from an article dir?

Ok, what I am trying to get across is that it is not a directory of anykind. Nor could a person upload or add photos on their own. It is more like an online magazine because there is a very clear editing process. What I am trying to offer is a way for people to further showcase their work/sell it, whilst giving me content to provide for a global audience. The problem is, that people don't see the benefit (a lot of the time) of adding their content to a site that is unformed, and thus not getting any traffic yet. This is the "limbo" I said I was in .

My question would be regarding anything (techniques) I could do to get initial content. Some of the ideas I have heard recently and will try include getting a lot of friends and personal content and doing e-mail invites (which have had some success for me). Thanks for your insight, I wasn't mad at your opinion of course, I am just frustrated by this whole process

**Vasity** · 06-29-2007, 03:17 PM

I have PMD you a soultion. I know how I increase traffic to your site respond via pm ttus I might be at work though. Got a buisness trip

lol. But don't know when I am leaving.

**Learning Newbie** · 06-29-2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highanddry

Ok, what I am trying to get across is that it is not a directory of anykind. Nor could a person upload or add photos on their own. It is more like an online magazine because there is a very clear editing process. What I am trying to offer is a way for people to further showcase their work/sell it, whilst giving me content to provide for a global audience. The problem is, that people don't see the benefit (a lot of the time) of adding their content to a site that is unformed, and thus not getting any traffic yet. This is the "limbo" I said I was in .

Now this is a good answer. I mean, like I said, I don't need to understand, but the way you just described it, well, there's something to that.

Let's say I upload some content I want to find a new audience for, but it's not quite good enough. Do you just say "no" or do you tell the person why not, and what they can look into improving for a better chance next time? If you've got a set editing procedure that ensures your site only carries the best stuff around, it sounds like you might have a critique service. I didn't realize that from looking over your site, but if I'm a person who just wrote a really good essay, and wonders if it's good enough to distribute, and you can give me an answer to that question, well, all of a sudden I have my own selfish motivation for being interested in your site.

Now let's say my essay is good enough - I can announce that my stuff is good enough to stand shoulder to shoulder with extremely high quality stuff that's been selected like a needle in a hay stack. That one's gonna be a harder sell, until you have plenty of content, but if passing your triage system is a badge of honor, again, that's something you should stress to people who find your site. If it's a magazine, even a digital one, that's automatically more prestigious to get published in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by highanddry

My question would be regarding anything (techniques) I could do to get initial content. Some of the ideas I have heard recently and will try include getting a lot of friends and personal content and doing e-mail invites (which have had some success for me). Thanks for your insight, I wasn't mad at your opinion of course, I am just frustrated by this whole process

That's not something I'm really qualified to say, because my traffic is kind of low. But if you make a bigger deal out of your unique strengths ( and we just explored a couple, but you should be able to fill a page with em ) I think whatever approach you take will be easier.

I'd recommend traditional SEO in your case, though. If you build up some respect from the search engines and people submit good text content, you're suddenly going to start showing up in Google for all kinds of terms you'd never thought of that are in peoples short stories. That should only be part of your promotion, but from the sound of it, SEO should be more successful for your site in particular than for most, including mine.

**Vasity** · 06-29-2007, 04:06 PM

If you want good content, the best thing is to supply it. Many times visitors to your website will not give you submissions, or reply's until you have a nice amount of major search strings. (positions in search enginies under multiple keywords) =). I will talk to you more tonight later jackob.

**highanddry** · 04:36 PM

Quote:

but the way you just described it, well, there's something to that.

Your latest response had a similar effect on me. I am begining to understand that upon looking at the site, its not clear how it differs from some others. I tried to state it clearly at the top of the page, but I get the feeling from you that I should accentuate these differences more. Actually I think my father said the same thing to me. When I visit fairly popular sites, they dont typically have an explanation of what they do..but I wonder if they began with one.

Well I am building one section at a time starting with photography. And I am getting some great content, though not enough people say "yes" or even respond. Right now we havn't had to deal with any rejections because the only people who see the site usually are those I intentionally invite. We are trying to establish a reputation for publishing content, not simply uploading it.

I may begin to focus more on showing that we are professionals in our given fields and build a reputation for showcasing high quality content. That was/is and has been my goal for this project.

Thanks for your response

**Learning Newbie** · 06-29-2007, 04:46 PM

That happens to me all the time, I'll put a lot of work into explaining something, but do it in a way that doesn't make sense to whoever I'm talking to, then we both get frustrated. It could be I didn't understand your site because I'm having a slow brain day, or it could be because it made sense to you because you know more about the site than the rest of us. But that's probably the best feedback I have.

Also, I think Digg doesn't have a "what we do" blurb because everybody already knows what Digg is about. Probably they still have it up somewhere, on an "about us" page or something, but I bet that was the first thing you saw until they hit critical mass.

Finally, I don't think it's that important to actually explain your site as much as make people understand how it's different and offers more value than some directory. You can probably do that without going over all the details of how your site works.

**ForrestCroce** · 06-30-2007, 01:43 AM

You have a handful of good photos on your site.

The concept sounds a lot like photo.net and PhotoSig. The latter requires people to upload their photos onto the company's server, while the former strongly encourages it for critiques, but has more to offer without critiques. On that note, PhotoZo is sort of an also-ran version of the other two, but a place with a culture where people like to upload all of their images to their site-hosted gallery, and never leave the site. I was given a thrashing for hot linking images from my site instead of letting them host my photos for me.

I really hope I'm not opening the floodgates and encouraging anyone lurking here to spam these sites, but you should look at them; they're both relevant to your question and ultimately you might see them as competitors. You also may want to ask this same question on their forums ... you might get some volunteers.

And hopefully this won't sound crass, but what does a person get in exchange for uploading a photo? And what are all the terms? Plenty of contest sites have fine print about "by submitting a photo, you irrevocably transfer ownership of the copyright." In fact, a lot of photographers are very stingy, and don't enter contests of any kind, because they include a royalty free license to use what's been submitted.

You might sweeten the deal by adding a search friendly link with each submission you accept. And a custom copyright message. Being able to send traffic to a photographer's site could help you get better photos, because the more ambitious photogs tend to sell themselves online. Your profile pages return 404s, so I haven't seen them, but under the image I'd like to see something like what I'll post below.

Since you said you have writing experience, you should fill out that section a bit with your own stuff. From the home page, that would help give the impression your site is "more full."

By way of example, I think if you set up the display something like this, you would have an easier time convincing someone like me to upload a photo:

Stream and Waterfall, Big Basin State Park

Image Copyright (©) Forrest Croce, 2003; Used With Permission
This image may not be downloaded or republished without express written permission from its owner.

Your site seems to have a more relaxed atmosphere than all of this, and that might help you target a big demographic group. But it might also deter some people from submitting anything. Again, I hate to sound crass, but I tend to ask for similar for images I sell commercially, and on the other hand I've let people use my photos for free, either when it's for a cause I believe in, or when it's mutually beneficial, and I get something useful out of it.

I might be talked into uploading a Seattle or Rockies photo if it sent me traffic. Ironically, you can grab a few of my images on Republikin's site, regardless. Or, you might find interested people at DPR. Whether you like my photos or not, I think giving people the option to display a link or © info with the images they submit would help solve your issue.

Also, you should let people link to the image on their server if they prefer to. I'm a perfectionist, and as I learn more and more about Photoshop's esoteric power, I go back and improve my older stuff. That would save you bandwidth, and let the users always see the latest and greatest.

Sorry for the long message ... but I've got a lot to say about photography.

**highanddry** · 03:06 AM

I would submit that the main difference between this idea and photo.net etc is the combination of writing, art, photography and media; user submitted and editor approved.

Quote:

but what does a person get in exchange for uploading a photo? And what are all the terms?

We do a custom profile for each submitter giving them a permanent link to their site, e-mail info and prices that they would sell their work for as well as visitor comments and rankings. I am hoping that this is enough to entice at least the initial bunch of people who I am asking for content, to at least respond :P. The images remain with the originator and we take only enough copyright protection to protect our submitters content on our site.

Quote:

said you have writing experience, you should fill out that section a bit with your own stuff.

Yes, I have used a few of my images and was seriously thinking about using a lot of my writing, but I don't want the site to seem one sided. I keep getting good news every day in small amounts (granting permissions)

Quote:

Sorry for the long message ... but I've got a lot to say about photography.

You have no idea how much I appreciate the response. Any insight is invaluable and further if you would be interested in submitting some images (given the user friendly conditions stated above), I would appreciate that. We have a few professional photographers and some great amateur ones who have joined the community and some of them are up now. If not, thats cool too.

Anyways, I'm starting to feel the Guinness and I think I should stop before I say something crazed !~~

Thanks

**dansgalaxy** · 06-30-2007, 08:00 AM

i have quite a few pics i have taken which look good, but i would prefer to host them in my own gallery, (i would like to write a gallery script.. eventually)

i think thesite looks gd, Lol i was thinking of maybe making a similar sitei doubt i will.. but nice idea.

Also maybe you could do something similar to WMT where u can set up and share adsense. so pages/galleries or whatever with their work on the get a cut of the adsense from it. could be a good way to encourage people to post

Dan.

**ForrestCroce** · 06-30-2007, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highanddry

I would submit that the main difference between this idea and photo.net etc is the combination of writing, art, photography and media; user submitted and editor approved.

A lot of the other sites I mentioned have writing and so on, but it's all specific to photography. And, shockingly, a lot of photographers have more than one interest. I don't write very well, but enjoy reading well crafted prose. Especially about the types of things I don't get to experience myself ... finished a book about climbing Mt Everest a while ago that was spellbinding. PhotoSig has millions of photo-related articles, and photo.net has a lot to do with traveling to good locations for shooting ... sounds like diversity is going to be your friend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by highanddry

We do a custom profile for each submitter giving them a permanent link to their site, e-mail info and prices that they would sell their work for as well as visitor comments and rankings.

I saw that you have profiles set up, but right now they're returning page not found errors, so I didn't get a chance to have a look.

Quote:

Originally Posted by highanddry

The images remain with the originator and we take only enough copyright protection to protect our submitters content on our site.

Submit an image to PhotoSig and look over their legalese. Or, to save you the trouble, they basically state what you just said, and make you affirm that you hold the copyright to the image and are able to grant them the right to display it on their site. Which is absolutely reasonable.

And for the record, I never had the idea you're trying to get a bunch of free images out of people on the sly. But there are too many sites that do exactly that to count, and it's a problem you're going to bump into. Making things worse, a lot of professional and semi-pro photographers are six year olds in adult bodies. The bulk spend most of their careers in a world where they could charge $2,500 for the labor of shooting a wedding, own the negatives, and sell reprints for about $100 per 8x10 to the whole family. These people aren't happy about the way their industry is changing, are highly suspicious, and advise anyone who'll listen to be stingy, too, "for the good of the industry."

Quote:

Originally Posted by highanddry

Yes, I have used a few of my images and was seriously thinking about using a lot of my writing, but I don't want the site to seem one sided. I keep getting good news every day in small amounts (granting permissions)

How are you going to sort / order the assets through your site? When someone replies to a thread here, it gets bumped back to the top. On PhotoSig, when a new image gets added, it lands at the top, and gets pushed down as newer ones come in - there's no moving back up, just finding it through different views. If I were you, I'd go with the bump-able thread model. Aside from hopefully keeping the best stuff at the top, that would also probably spread your stuff out, so it doesn't appear in one big clump.

Quote:

Originally Posted by highanddry

You have no idea how much I appreciate the response. Any insight is invaluable and further if you would be interested in submitting some images (given the user friendly conditions stated above), I would appreciate that. We have a few professional photographers and some great amateur ones who have joined the community and some of them are up now. If not, thats cool too.

I wouldn't have spent so much time describing how I'd like your site to look at the detail level if I wasn't willing to contribute something.

That would be rude.

**highanddry** · 05:01 PM

Quote:

i have quite a few pics i have taken which look good, but i would prefer to host them in my own gallery, (i would like to write a gallery script.. eventually)

I am pretty lenient all around, but I would have trouble allowing people to host images on this site from their Own hosting. For one, i am using a script (lightbox2) that requires me to tag images, and it slows down the process to have to change countless urls, when I now I can just copy/paste Url names and change the image name. 2. One thing I have to do, is keep images at a manageable size, then in profiles you will have the opportunity to see the full size (or perhaps through a link on the image). 3. I would respect someones option of removing content, but I wouldn't just like to see it disappear or stop working.

Quote:

Also maybe you could do something similar to WMT where u can set up and share adsense. so pages/galleries or whatever with their work on the get a cut of the adsense from it. could be a good way to encourage people to post

Then i would be in charge of money managing and allocating which would be difficult. Right now i have to manage so many sections will very little help except one professional editor and another writer. Perhaps once I figure out exactly how this is going to run, I can do more of that/membership benefits or something

Quote:

I saw that you have profiles set up, but right now they're returning page not found errors, so I didn't get a chance to have a look.

you know I accidentally deleted the **** template profile. I have to redo them.

Quote:

a lot of professional and semi-pro photographers are six year olds in adult bodies.

I had a guy tell me that he would usually be flattered, but he didn't like how I didn't specifically compliment his work well enough. That said, I learned from the message how to approach new prospective content providers.

Quote:

How are you going to sort / order the assets through your site? When someone replies to a thread here, it gets bumped back to the top.

I have it set up so that images are paired together 20 at a time as a "gallery" and each one featured 2-3 artists. If you look on the site now, theres an empty one set up for new images. These galleries randomly switch to the top of the page. I thought this would be a fresh way to always get a chance to see your work at the top. There will probably be 2-3 galleries per page and the pages change their value as well. Also I will be adding the editor's top picks to the front page to be featured for a week probably.

Quote:

I wouldn't have spent so much time describing how I'd like your site to look at the detail level if I wasn't willing to contribute something.

That would be rude.

Thank you, I look forward to seeing your photography and will work on the legal suggestions/protections you provided.

**goheadtry** · 06-30-2007, 06:46 PM

Have you tried using open source and modifying the source for your needs and design?

**highanddry** · 07-02-2007, 10:23 AM

open source for what now?