General Discussions

**Republikin** · 07-07-2007, 01:29 PM

I've noticed in public discourse as of late (the last few years) that many people, especially conservatives, seem to get upset by the idea that someone would identify themselves as African-American or Asian-American. The argument is usually that they are simply Americans now and should assimilate into our (pay attention to this word) culture. While this argument seems valid at first, I would like to submit this tiny essay as an explanation as to why this argument is invalid. Perhaps it will serve as a lesson to other conservatives or anyone else who feels this way.

During the years that the slave trade was active, America and Europe were in a stage that is now referred to as Colonialism. The Colonial attitude was one of conquest and superiority. As a result many cultures were either exploited (think China, Africa and India) or decimated (think Native Americans). Cultures such as India and China had a wealth of philosophical material to maintain their identity however, Africans and Native Americans had no such philosophical history. As a result, when these two cultures were assimilated into our culture they effectively lost their own. We stole more than their freedom, we stole their cultural identity.

Since then many changes have taken place in these sub-cultures of American society. The civil rights movement being the most prominent in America's collective memory. This post-colonial era saw the end of slavery and the slow process of understanding that everyone deserves true freedom. However, in the post-colonial era people were free enough to research their identity and/or create one. This new post-colonial philosophy is what gave steam to the womens lib movement, civil rights, etc. These sub-cultures were now allowed to create their own philosophy and try to regain some of the culture that was stolen from them by our ancestors.

It is my belief that hyphenated labels are nothing more than an attempt to regain some of the cultural identity that was lost so long ago and who are you and I to tell someone that the way in which they choose to identify with their ancestors is wrong? Seems to me that this is one of the last patterns of the majorities thought that is yet to be rid of colonial influence.

**EGS** · 07-07-2007, 02:45 PM

I think the term "black people" is a lot more discriminating than African-Americans.

I hate when people call us "white people".

The terms dark and light people are better.

**ForrestCroce** · 07-07-2007, 03:04 PM

I've never objected to people calling themselves whatever they feel like, and generally try to respect that. I grew up in an Italian family, and my grand parents were called WOPs, short for with out papers. Or guinea, which is the name of an Italian coin, or dago. I can understand why they would have wanted something a little more flattering, and apart from being my grand parents, they really aren't special.

When it comes to assimilating, I think that tends to happen on its own. The Onion wrote a joke article about a terror cell inside the US that couldn't bother to blow themselves up because they didn't want to miss Friends. Anyone who's been to LA knows it doesn't happen overnight, but ...

I think if you put all the rhetoric aside, the patriotism they drill into you in school, one of the US's greatest strengths is that we incorporate pieces of immigrants' culture into our own. It would be a sad, sad life without Indian food, burritos, samba ... think The Girl From Ipanema. Einstein made a pretty significant contribution on his own, but whole sub cultures blending into the melting pot and influencing the rest of us leaves everyone better off in the long term.

And I think you're on to something in particular. Chinese immigrants built our transcontinental railroad system, and a lot of them died as a result. But their time here has been shorter and less traumatic than Africans being kidnapped, enslaved, and not allowed to acknowledge their own culture. After a few generations, it's lost, and to everyone else a cultural history is a birthright. Reconnecting with your ancestors in some way seems positive to me.

And for the record, here at WMT or somewhere else, we need to hear more of this. Understanding, compassion, pragmatism, and things like that aren't a partisan issue. Republicans don't have a monopoly on God, and Democrats don't have a monopoly on not being racist. I'm not a member of either party, and somehow I managed not to be a skinhead without the donkeys' approval. You sound more progressive than a lot of Democrats I know. Politics is too divisive, and if we stopped to think, we don't need another reason to hate each other.

**goheadtry** · 07-07-2007, 03:49 PM

I am not a racist or hater, but here is my opinion.

Not all "Black People" are African-American, so in my opinion there is nothing discriminating with the term "black people" but I do find it discriminating to use the term African-American, because some people generalize.If you going to call them "black people" do not use this term unless you are describing someones appearance. I actually think we should use the term "Dark complected gentle men / Women or Black descent
Just like if you are born in America you are American unless you have dull citizenship then you are African-American ETC. and that should be the only time use this term or terms like it. Along with people who's family are from Asia ETC. They are not Asian, They are not Asian-American, they are simply American with Asian descent.

**ForrestCroce** · 07-07-2007, 04:18 PM

Honestly, you expressed yourself in an intelligent and respectful way. I'm not sure whether I agree with you 100 %, but you make good points ... and you don't at all sound like a racist.

Everything else aside, "Of African/Asian/European/Whatever Descent" is probably a more correct description. I think people use "?????-American" instead mostly because we all have short attention spans, and if it doesn't fit on a bumper sticker, it just won't do.

**Learning Newbie** · 07-07-2007, 06:25 PM

OMFG. I just saw a pink elephant, and now my dog is running around on the ceiling. All the clocks are melting and there's water flying around sideways, but it's not raining. People are 20 feet tall, and really silly. Someone finally managed to put LSD in the water supply.

I'm the most liberal guy you can find. I think Bill and Hillary Clinton are both way too centrist, and Ted Kennedy isn't a true liberal. Most people you think are extreme nutcase hippys I think aren't quite liberal enough. And here my sworn ideological enemy is someone I'm forced to bow in respect to. Seriously, Repub, you and Adam are the two people I respect more than anyone on webmaster-talk. You're one of about three Republicans I have a deep respect for. Arlen Specter is another. Chuck Hagel, no. I love what he's doing for us, but I think on the whole, you're a better person than he is. You need another praise thread.

**Republikin** · 07-07-2007, 06:48 PM

Quote:

You need another praise thread.

No, I really don't. Not unless you want my ego to grow to the size of John Adams'.

As far as everyones comments, thanks. I appreciate the civil discourse. I must admit though that I meant not to discuss the labels themselves but more the attitude that the specific labels I mentioned are somehow wrong.

**Learning Newbie** · 07-07-2007, 07:35 PM

I don't know why the labels are wrong, but there are certain members of your party who make all of you look like Republikkkans just because of guilt by suspicion. Tom Tancredo is frightening. He's not the only one, but this isn't a thread about bashing Republicans. I kind of wish you had a different user name, because the perception that Republicans just simply hate brown people is going to give us the White House in 2008.

But "knowing" you in the online sense, actually having deep conversations, it's starting to change the way I look at your kind in general. I think a lot of Republicans aren't as smart and open minded and especially morally consistent as you are, but I generally think you guys are for school vouchers because you want to kill public school and make a wall between the class that can afford to send their kids to a good private school and everyone else, because Republicans are evil and greedy. Talking to you, a lot through PMs that aren't part of this or other threads, I'm starting to realize the voucher thing isn't about being evil, it's about we all agree there's a problem, we all want to fix it and make peoples lives better, but we all think our way is the only one that will work. It's not that Republican congresspeople want to reinforce an underclass, it's that you believe the free market is the best way to pressure bad schools to improve themselves. Don't want to hijack your thread, but I think it's important you should know what.

Back to the point, I think it's reasonable and proper to expect people in America to speak English. I don't think we should have a bill that says English is our official language, because it already is de facto. We don't need a law that says the sun is our life-giving source of light and warmth. But all people living in America should try their hardest to learn to speak English. It helps the community they become part of the fabric of, but it also helps them enjoy a better life. That's an example of the larger situation, becoming Americanized is a good thing for immigrants and for America.

But speaking the same language so we can all talk to each other doesn't mean a white guy like me should be given dirty looks for wearing a cardigan sweater, or a black guy should be shunned for wearing a dashiki. It's freedom, ingenuity, and a love for the ideal that the people should collectively choose our own fate, that the only thing that makes a government legitimate is the consent of the people, that makes someone an American. It's not acting white.

And we're too young to have our own race or even real lineage. We started as a country of English ex-patriots. Pretty soon we had Scandanavians, Scottsmen, Italians, Jews, and every ethnic group in the world. We're a country of immigrants. That's the whole point. Since there's arguably no such thing as a just American, I'm a Russian American. I think of myself more as a good husband, nice guy, clever programmer, and stuff like that, Russian is like #100 in what defines me, and anyway it was my great great grandparents who came over. But Russia has a long and rich history, so that's kind of in the back of my mind. I've never thought what it would be like if I knew my family came from the Balkans somewhere, but I didn't know if it was Macedonia or Romania, or even Turkey. That's a really interesting question, thanks for making me stop to think about that.

I still really can't believe how much I agree on a liberal issue with Republican! This is blowing my mind. But you just gained a lot of respect in my book.