General Discussions

**ForrestCroce** · 07-15-2007, 10:24 PM

I went up to Mount Ranier today, and must have accumulated some bad karma. My bag wasn't quite closed, the zipper just crept more and more open until my favorite lens fell out, and bounced three times on the pavement. I paid $900 for the lens, it's the best one I've ever used, like it was hand made by God himself. Then, an hour later on the side of the mountain, I've got the camera and a different lens on the tripod, waiting for the fog to move to where I want it. A gust of wind blew the whole setup down, the lens hit a rock, and the metal hood is dented. It doesn't seem to want to focus anymore. That lens was half the price of the first, so not a big deal, but I paid $3 K for the camera.

I did some quick and dirty tests, and I'm waiting for them to download to see the results. The first lens still focuses and seems to meter properly. I'm waiting to see whether there are any aberrations. And how the camera body itself held up.

But I need to come up with a bunch of money to replace some equipment. I need a better tripod to stand up to the wind, and a more rugged wide angle lens. Plus a backpack I can seal shut. Any advice on how to raise these funds? I'm not going to carry adverts on my site, and I'm not going to sell links. But I've got a handful of class libraries and applications I could try to market.

And how might I go about trying to sell usage of my photos to local companies for their ads? I have a lot of distinctly Seattle stuff.

I have this Starbucks thing coming up, and might be able to exhibit my photos at the doctor's office ... in each case I can charge about $300 for a framed and matted print. I got the Starbucks thing in part because I'm in there a lot, so how would I approach restaurants when I don't eat out very often, or businesses that want to draw attention to their Seattle presence?

**Sczzy** · 07-15-2007, 11:52 PM

Man that sucks!

Pike Place Market is really good at this time of year I would take your lower end photos and set up shop.

I really think that you would make plenty of money in a weekend.

The cruise ship docks would be another good place. There is a lot of traffic this time of year.

Hope that helps, good luck!

**ADAM Web Design** · 07-16-2007, 01:16 AM

Man, that's a tough break, dude.

I would rethink the ad thing if I were you. I doubt you'd make the full $900, but at least you could get a few extra bucks with Google Adsense, and it would be worth it for the shots you make.

As far as the software you're building, I don't think your DOM thing would be marketable (since as good a tool as it is, it's a niche tool even among the web design niche), but you might be able to combine it with an HTML/ASP editor and make money that way.

As far as approaching businesses go, you may not have to...you may be able to get businesses to approach you. You've got a site that isn't far off in terms of layout, and you've got an incredible portfolio of photographs. If you can clean it up and optimize it for phrases such as "Seattle photographer" (and we can help), then you'll end up with a short-term and a long-term solution.

**ForrestCroce** · 02:34 AM

The Dom viewer thing I'm going to release for free, and get a little traffic. The parsing engine I might sell; I know DevComponents charges $100 for basically the same thing. A backend agnostic data i/o layer, that can talk to Access, Oracle, or SQL with the same api, and a SQL IDE that I'm working on, but would need to buy 3rd party components.

I'm hoping there's some amount of revenue to be had from this stuff. I'm also wondering about the prejudice that people will have with a site that's well optimized for photography, buying software or IT consulting. I'm not sure if I should have a software.forrestcroce.com subdomain, a different domain entirely, or what?

I'm also making a lot of progress on a "CMS" to power my site, which will fix the layout thing, since I'll only have to change it once. The system will be a commercial venture, but also upgrade my site.

I've been pushing to do more portraits, but I have a lot of work to do testing stuff out. The quality isn't the same as it was this mornign. The portrait lens did the best, even after bouncing off the parking lot a few times. The thing is, even if I send it in for a repair, I'll never feel like it has that same magic it came with.

I'm working full time at IT, and would prefer to sell images to local companies for advertising, but so far I've only been approached by a company I used to work for, and a magazine out of Portland that wanted specific locations and an impossible deadline. It's progress, but I'm a perfectionist, and can't charge people to shoot their portrait if the best lens in the world is knocked a little out alignment. So that seems to leave the collection of photos I've got now, and IT shrink-wrap products and services.

This really wasn't worth killing my gear over:

Near Sunrise Point, Mount Rainier

**highanddry** · 07-16-2007, 12:41 PM

What happened to the starbucks thing Forrest? That sounded like a good path in terms of monetary earnings..

**Cheshire_cat** · 07-16-2007, 01:59 PM

Dude Forrest I hate to hear what happened to you, I know that sucks. Last year I totaled out my car and was in need of 2,000 dollars immediately to pay the balance of the car. I took the advice of one of my friends to sell some of my paintings on eBay, so I had my worked framed and I ended up selling 8 pieces for way more than expected. I do not know anything about selling photography, but I know I would defiantly place a bid on some of the work that you have posted in this forum. If you do decide to sell your work, tell me where so I can do so.

**ForrestCroce** · 07-16-2007, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADAM Web Design

I would rethink the ad thing if I were you. I doubt you'd make the full $900, but at least you could get a few extra bucks with Google Adsense, and it would be worth it for the shots you make.

I'm worried this would hurt my site's authority. It's somewhat flushed out, but I want to add lens reviews. In fact, after yesterday, I might have some unique experience at that. How many people can say they've bounced a $900 prime ( non-zoom ) lens off the street at 6,400 ft? That's of more interest than you might think ... professional photographers are known to abuse their gear. Don't ever buy a used anything from one. Anyway, there's a lack of good, comprehensive lens reviews on the net. And if I can fix that, and reap the traffic, I don't want people wondering whether it's for the ad money or affiliate sales that I'm saying this is good and that isn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by highanddry

What happened to the starbucks thing Forrest? That sounded like a good path in terms of monetary earnings..

It's still on track; the new manager starts in about two weeks. I need to go out and get a few frames to leave some pics for the employee lounge their as a gift. I'll have to buy a mat cutter and a lot of frames, so probably spend about $400 to get my stuff up on the walls. Then I'll ask around $350 or so per framed and matted print. So it's in the works, and I'm hopeful, but it'll be a while. I should be testing the portrait lens, the one I depend on most, but I really don't want to in case I don't like what I see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheshire_cat

Dude Forrest I hate to hear what happened to you, I know that sucks. Last year I totaled out my car and was in need of 2,000 dollars immediately to pay the balance of the car. I took the advice of one of my friends to sell some of my paintings on eBay, so I had my worked framed and I ended up selling 8 pieces for way more than expected. I do not know anything about selling photography, but I know I would defiantly place a bid on some of the work that you have posted in this forum. If you do decide to sell your work, tell me where so I can do so.

That's a good idea ... and amazingly kind of you! Do you think I'd have much luck on eBay in general, not being Galen Rowell or Art Wolfe? And if I don't have an eBay account, but my mother does, with lots of positive feedback, would using hers be a problem, do you think? Any thoughts on print size, mat size, and frame size?

Thanks, everybody. I appreciate the suggestions and the sympathy.

Here's another one from yesterday, before any of the damage:

**seolman** · 07-16-2007, 10:11 PM

Man Forrest - that sucks big time. I used to do photography and some low life broke into my house in Sydney and stole my entire setup. I had accumulated thousands worth of stuff and I couldn't afford to replace it. That was way back in the 80's and I haven't really gotten back into it since then.

Like Adam said, if you need traffic we can help. Your photos are as good as any big name photographer. Have you thought about putting together a book about the Seattle area? This kind of project could be sponsored by someone in publishing who likes your work. You might check out a few local big time printers who do high quality publications and see who they recommend as potential buyers of your work. Even if a book doesn't happen you may have the opportunity to sell some of your prints to publishers via introduction.

Contact me if you need some traffic. Glad to help.

**highanddry** · 07-16-2007, 10:34 PM

Man seol, you've had a bad run with robbery's. You should get a home-alone type alarm system or something. I feel terrible for the both of you, the most frustrating thing thats EVER happened to me was the recent loss of my nano (200$) loss, But thats about it... Now I don't feel as bad for my loss, but I'm so obsessive that I think if I lost a 900$ lense or thousands in equipment I would go into a deep depression.

**vangogh** · 07-16-2007, 10:36 PM

I'm sorry to hear about the lenses Forrest. I don't think there's anything wrong with placing some ads on your site at least temporarily. I think affiliate products would work well on your site too since camera equipment is expensive and you'd get a decent amount from each sale.

How about explaining what happened on your site somewhere and let people know you're trying to raise some money and you're hoping to sell some images to be able to afford new lenses. Telling the story would probably work better on a blog, but if you attach the story to selling some images it might help to sell a few more.

I see no problem selling images through your mom's eBay account assuming she's fine with it, which I imagine she would be.

**ForrestCroce** · 07-16-2007, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seolman

Man Forrest - that sucks big time. I used to do photography and some low life broke into my house in Sydney and stole my entire setup. I had accumulated thousands worth of stuff and I couldn't afford to replace it. That was way back in the 80's and I haven't really gotten back into it since then.

How do you make a small fortune in photography? Start with a large fortune. Sorry to hear about that. The lens I destroyed replaced a very similar one that got stolen on a trip through San Francisco. Ironically, I stopped working after I'd lent it to a girlfriend at the time, and I found out on Mt Ranier. I think the Mountain is trying to tell me "no photos allowed." The lake one turned out really well, though, even if I overdid it in Photoshop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seolman

Like Adam said, if you need traffic we can help. Your photos are as good as any big name photographer. Have you thought about putting together a book about the Seattle area? This kind of project could be sponsored by someone in publishing who likes your work. You might check out a few local big time printers who do high quality publications and see who they recommend as potential buyers of your work. Even if a book doesn't happen you may have the opportunity to sell some of your prints to publishers via introduction.

I've been thinking about a book forever. I've been trying to figure out how to get enough clout to get somebody to publish one. I'm actually hoping web traffic can help with that. I know Starbucks will bring me some exposure, and probably make it easier to spread to other cafes and restaurants, get my stuff known by more people. But I'm also hoping to continue shooting better and better photos... I'm going to talk to people at Getty about some of my better images, but I think I need to build more name recognition to get to that point.

I should have a mat cutter by the weekend, I hope. I'd sell my car to replace especially the portrait lens ( $100 a session ), but it needs some work and it won't bring enough to replace the portrait lens and a tripod I can trust in heavy winds.

Lesson to anyone reading this: I was way too stupid to have insurance on my camera. If you have an expensive hobby, learn from my mistake. I rent an apartment, so home owners isn't an option, but I should have had business insurance on the gear. Anyway, I don't need advice on that, more on if I can gain some traffic, how I can get it to help my cause.

If I update all my freeware, would it be low class to have a "Please donate" button on the toolbar? I mean, I'm not starving or dieing of malaria; I take pictures because I enjoy it, get some creative release, and feel most alive up at the tops of mountains.

**seolman** · 07-16-2007, 11:55 PM

A few ideas on traffic. These are just suggestions so think of it as a smorgasbord - take what you like and pass on the things you don't.

a) Well written press releases - you can submit them yourself to various major newspapers - saves money. Promote yourself as a supporter of preserving the Great Northwest.

b) Hook up with a wildlife conservation group that supports protecting the areas you photograph and perhaps offer them your services in return for some equipment support. Some of these Foundations have big bucks and can easily pay a bit for equipment to receive the benefits of some of your photography.

c) Contact regional magazines themed on outdoor activities and let them see some of your work. If you can write well do an article on a specific area of the wilderness, it's history, flora and fauna etc. Magazines have specific submission rules but typically these are available from their web sites. Being published in print is a great way to get exposure for you and your web site. You also have the advantage of listing your web site in the "About the Author" blurb.

d) An obvious option is forums related to publishing, wildlife conservation, outdoor activities etc..

This is all I have for now. I hope at least one of these will be helpful.

**ForrestCroce** · 07-17-2007, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seolman

Promote yourself as a supporter of preserving the Great Northwest.

You actually gave me a lot to think about, other than the technological marvel at how 18 glass elements in a 15 mm lens can focus the entire visible spectrum ... until you knock all that glass out of alignment. The funny thing is when I first started building a lens collection, I always thought broken glass would be the danger, not microscopically moved glass.

My doctor loves my photography, and prescribed a valium, actually a generic, for when I test the camera and lenses, to keep me from hating life when I see the results. It's not a cancer test, but photography is the only art I have any talent at, and somehow I'm pretty good ... it's like a calling.

So here's a question for you. I do believe in conservation. Clear cuts are ugly, but they cause mudslides and dam rivers causing floods, even destroy houses. The air is getting less blue and more brown within my lifetime. That's sad, but it also makes landscape photography a dieing sport. So, I car pool when it's possible, bike a lot ... 1,200 miles in the past year, not so much for the environment but because I enjoy it. But I'm not a hippie, don't eat granola or wear sandles, and all of the negative stereotypes that go along with that. I've always felt like that's too political, too us vs them a subject to get involved in. No?

**Cheshire_cat** · 07-18-2007, 12:49 PM

I don’t think that selling under someone else account would hurt, the fact that she has good feedback would help I would think. As for the sizes and stuff I can’t really help there as I do not know what is common in photography. It’s worth a shot anyways; it does not cost if they do not sell.

I used to have a link to a site that I used to go on all the time when I painted and it was all about how to sell your work (i.e. ebay or local). I thought it was really helpful. I’ll try and find it as my memory is drawing a blank and cannot think of it right now. But that had information on what consumers liked in sizes and such.

**Learning Newbie** · 07-18-2007, 02:05 PM

I missed this one. Dude, I'm so sorry to hear about your tragic day. I hope you get a streak of luck to balance it out somehow.

If there's anything any of us can do to help please don't hesitate to ask.

**goheadtry** · 07-18-2007, 06:54 PM

One word I would recommend caring around a bucket with cement, a U-bold and some rope to hook to your equipment next time. If you are part of a photography association etc maybe you could buy someones old equipment if it is not to old, I accuired a tripod for 50 cents at a trift store it does what I need it to.

**ForrestCroce** · 07-18-2007, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheshire_cat

IAs for the sizes and stuff I can’t really help there as I do not know what is common in photography.

I think 8 by 10 inches is the most common ... although like printing larger than that. I think 10 by 15 inches works out pretty well for most of them.

If I cut mats up to the next standard frame size, does it matter that much? Does it make sense to go for larger ones and ask more, or 5x7 and lower prices, but more sales? I know part of that will depend on my costs, but I don't know a thing about eBay, or have any idea what's likely to sell and what isn't.

**seolman** · 07-19-2007, 02:16 AM

Sorry it took me a while to get back with you on this Forrest.

I am absolutely apolitical so I guess I don't fit the norm for the hippy thing. I'm also bald, so my long hair hippy days are well and truly over (I knew I should have kept more photos from my musician days).

Not all organizations are confrontational or political in nature. Many Foundation charters are based on education of the masses more than simply taking a political stance. It's worth researching the regional conservation organizations and seeing what their agenda is. Then you can make a decision on whether you may wish to ally with them in some way.

I serve as a director for a Foundation here in Costa Rica that promotes reforestation. The Founder is a friend of mine who owns an oil and natural gas company and makes millions. He understands what carbon neutrality is and plants thousands of trees each year to more than offsets any greenhouse gas emissions emitted by his business (or himself depending on his diet that day). He has helped to develop a children's educational program here in Costa Rica to teach the next generation to protect the rain forest and not chop it down.

If you meet this guy he is anything but your stereotyped conservationist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForrestCroce

You actually gave me a lot to think about, other than the technological marvel at how 18 glass elements in a 15 mm lens can focus the entire visible spectrum... until you knock all that glass out of alignment. The funny thing is when I first started building a lens collection, I always thought broken glass would be the danger, not microscopically moved glass.

My doctor loves my photography, and prescribed a valium, actually a generic, for when I test the camera and lenses, to keep me from hating life when I see the results. It's not a cancer test, but photography is the only art I have any talent at, and somehow I'm pretty good ... it's like a calling.

So here's a question for you. I do believe in conservation. Clear cuts are ugly, but they cause mudslides and dam rivers causing floods, even destroy houses. The air is getting less blue and more brown within my lifetime. That's sad, but it also makes landscape photography a dieing sport. So, I car pool when it's possible, bike a lot ... 1,200 miles in the past year, not so much for the environment but because I enjoy it. But I'm not a hippie, don't eat granola or wear sandles, and all of the negative stereotypes that go along with that. I've always felt like that's too political, too us vs them a subject to get involved in. No?