General Discussions

**Learning Newbie** · 08-16-2007, 03:01 PM

Oh my god, this is the worst thing I've heard all week.

"In a confrontation captured on videotape, a hospital security guard fired a stun gun to stop a defiant father from taking home his newborn, sending both man and child crashing to the floor. Now William Lewis says his baby girl suffers from head trauma because she was dropped."

The man was within his rights, obeying the law. Who "owns" the baby anyway? Answer: no one.

"Lewis, 30, said the April 13 episode began after he and his wife felt mistreated by staff at the Woman's Hospital of Texas and they decided to leave. Hospital employees told him doctors would not allow it, but Lewis picked up the baby and strode to a bank of elevators."

Uh, patients bill of rights anybody? Actually people who aren't brought in to the hospital by the police on their way to jail are free to leave at any time they feel like it. Parents with a newborn aren't slaves or prisoners, and think of how much money the hospital charged for the services rendered???

The parents aren't squeaky clean themselves, but that doesn't mean they have no legal rights. I'm glad the corporations haven't been able to end the concept of lawsuits in this country. The guards should be in prison right now, but the hospital needs to pay through the nose to send a message to anyone else who might act violent against a newborn baby.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3478918

**Cheshire_cat** · 08-16-2007, 03:26 PM

This is a tragic story; I really hate seeing harm come to innocents (especially new-born babies) due to stupidity.

**Learning Newbie** · 08-16-2007, 04:27 PM

Hopefully it's not long-term, but my parents always said they dropped me on my head as a kid and it explains a lot.

**Republikin** · 08-16-2007, 04:39 PM

At my local hospital they actually put a tag on my daughters ankle that automatically locks the door when she gets near it. They wouldn't let us leave either (well, not with the child anyways), we felt like prisoners. We wanted to leave because they told me I couldn't hold my daughter while in the hospital because I might drop her. Needless to say I was infuriated.

**angele803** · 08-16-2007, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republikin

At my local hospital they actually put a tag on my daughters ankle that automatically locks the door when she gets near it.

This guys baby had the same type of tag on her! I read through the article and it said this tag would even shut down the elevators! So why did the guard need to taser the guy. He was locked in on that floor. He wasn't going to be able to go anywhere!

**Learning Newbie** · 08-16-2007, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republikin

We wanted to leave because they told me I couldn't hold my daughter while in the hospital because I might drop her. Needless to say I was infuriated.

That's really shameful. The honest truth is any parent has the built-in reflex to protect their child. A hospital is more qualified than most parents to deal with medical emergencies, but most parents are smart enough not to go creating those. Denying a new parent to hold their own baby like that is a moral crime. Your daughter's birth is routine for the hospital staff, but they need to understand it's one of the most important days of your life.

Frankly there's no one that's going to take better care of a newborn infant than its parents.

**tripy** · 08-16-2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

We wanted to leave because they told me I couldn't hold my daughter while in the hospital because I might drop her. Needless to say I was infuriated.

Unbelievable....
What world are we living on ?

Soon we'll not be allowed to breath, because it could cause a lung cancer.
Seriously republikin, I think I would have called the cops if a nurse or doctor told me that...

**Republikin** · 08-16-2007, 06:30 PM

I live in a small town, the cops wouldn't have been any help. The worse part was we felt like our child was being held hostage and I was afraid if I rubbed the nurses the wrong way for too long they would call CPS and come up with some reason to take my daughter.

In the grand scheme of things I realized it wasn't a battle I would win so I folded, however I did hold her anyways when the nurses weren't around.

**dansgalaxy** · 08-16-2007, 09:21 PM

Ok, i HOPE im right in saying none of that would happen in the UK, i know like how its advised for the babies and mothers health they have a day at least in hospital to check everythings ok, but ive never heard of not being able to hold your own child. if anything its encouraged so that you and the child can bond instantly.

i still remember the morning after my (now 9) brother was born and sitting next to my mum in the hospital bed eating roses (chocolates), she and my brother left in the evening. and i first held him on our sofa as soon as we got home. (i was 6 and under close supervision - no worries

i didnt... well only once... joking

)

why do they have the whole tag thing anyway?

Dan

**goheadtry** · 12:15 AM

Karma is a B!TCH maybe the Guard will end up in the mental hospital receiving Shock therapy who in there right mind would shock somebody with a infant in there hands people can conduct electricity we are 70% percent water also we already have small amounts of electrical pulse in are brain I think this guard should have to go into the mental hospital for shocking the customers of the hospital because they did not like there service they were receiving for the hospital.
And yes a technically a hospital is a company Or business because they get paid for their service.

**DaveMo~** · 08-17-2007, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angele803

So why did the guard need to taser the guy.

That guy was a cop, too, and he did spend a whole 40 seconds assessing the situation. I guess using the taser was better than shooting him. [/sarcasm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

The honest truth is any parent has the built-in reflex to protect their child. ... but most parents are smart enough not to go creating those. ....

Frankly there's no one that's going to take better care of a newborn infant than its parents.

I would agree with that for most people, but in this instance, these were people with domestic violence records. Those kind of people may not be "smart" enough not to create problems for their own flesh and blood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansgalaxy

why do they have the whole tag thing anyway?

I thought Child Protective Services are the ones that had to order that the tag be put on a child. But it seems like anymore that anyone could say something to CPS and have this done. I don't know about all that.

However, I'm old enough to remember the good ol' days when I got to stand beside the doc while he was doing a C-Section on my wife....reminded me a bit like hunting....but then a little head popped out of there.... Oh, oh, the story....anyway, I was holding my first son within a minute while he was still attached, and he was the FIRST baby that I had ever held in my entire life. Times have really changed.

So what's the answer? How do you get a baby from someone that has been involved with domestic violence or something worse?

Or how do you get the baby from a father that has NO problems and just wants to hold his own offspring?

Gee.

Dave

**dansgalaxy** · 08-17-2007, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMo~

So what's the answer? How do you get a baby from someone that has been involved with domestic violence or something worse?

- DONT tazor them
Someone said about the electrical impluses, its because of those that electricity effects use and other living things, because the electricity basically overloads our circuits which are only used to charges under 1V, which is why people can "freeze" and remain holding the power source becasue their neversystem locks up, and why with shocks (like tazzors) they collapse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMo~

Or how do you get the baby from a father that has NO problems and just wants to hold his own offspring?

- YOU dont!

if a dr/nurse feels they cannot hold a baby with out dropping it, then you do what everyone does if for instance a small child was going to hold a baby, you would sit them down on a soft surface (eg, bed, sofa) get them to sit comfortably and then give them the baby, while standing close. then if somehow they do drop the baby it will fall about 2 inchs onto a soft place, where the nurse or whoever can take the baby back.. no harm no foul... no brian truama!

Dan

**KML9870** · 08-17-2007, 09:16 AM

12 years and 50 weeks ago when my daughter (my second child) was born I hemorrhaged and the doctors did not tell me. She was 2 1/2 weeks over due and I was anxious to hold her. Almost an hour after she was born they finally gave her to me and I passed out after sitting up to nurse her. It was the only time (still) in my life that I passed out and if they had told me I had lost a lot of blood and/or why it took so long to give me the child I had carried for 10 months I wouldn't have sat up so quickly. It happened in slow motion for me...first I noticed that I wasn't processing color, then that I wasn't processing sound. This amazed me and I told my husband. Immediately after the words were out of my mouth, I was unconscious. She was born at 2:44 pm. Around 6:30 pm they would not release her from the nursery because I had passed out.....even for me to nurse her or when my mother-in-law & husband requested to hold her and stated they would stay quick reach of her. My hubby (quite loudly) informed them that she was his child and if they didn't let them hold her in the safety and supervision of the hospital he would take his wife & child home, file suit against the hospital and be sure to cause a media circus. They were pretty quick to let him have her!!

A mother carries the child in her womb all through pregnancy. Any father that is at the hospital after the child is born had to have been at least peripherally involved during the pregnancy. Not to mention the shared DNA. Both parents are already better acquainted with that particular child than any doctor or nurse.

I have not heard of any hospital in my neck of the woods using these bracelets and I can not imagine what my hubby's reaction would have been in the same situation. In this situation, where domestic violence has been documented, I can understand and even advocate keeping a close eye on the parents. However, that man was contained, the mother was next to him. Had the guards, doctors & nurses addressed the parents concerns while allowing the man to hold his daughter the situation could probably have been resolved peacefully. I don't think it take a whole lot of intelligence to figure out, just some compassion & understanding for the new parents feelings.

**dansgalaxy** · 08-17-2007, 09:27 AM

Completely agree!

**Learning Newbie** · 08-17-2007, 02:37 PM

Talib Kweli has a song with Mos Def called Joy, about the birth of his child.

Quote:

You know them hospitals all trying to get paid, no questions
hear come the doctor's with they drugs, trying to do c-sections
But my baby stay's strong, in labor for yay long
eight-pound baby boy, to carry my name on, joy!

Quote:

So it's all good, this time well have the baby in a house
I went the hospital route, I know what they all about (Never again)
So I'm out on tour, in Baltimore
get the call around four, when the water hit the floor (****!)
I gotta rock my show, but I gotta go
got second thoughts about her not going, to the hospital
I left the show early, Mos held me down, good looking (No doubt)
call the car service, like, take me straight to Brooklyn (Uh huh)
Got the news in the car, stayed sorta calm
but I cried tears of joy, when they put my daughter in my arms, how precious!

These two quotes above are directly related to the conversation we're having about hospitals, and parents, and how vested each is in protecting the child.

But then we're joined in our conversation by some very good parents, and I'd like to quote one more verse from the song that I think must describe Dave's relationship with his daughter, from what I know of the man:

Quote:

I do it for the seeds y'all, in they formative years when they need y'all
we gotta believe, in what we conceive y'all, it's deep y'all
I give them the truth, so they approach the situation, with ammunition
I keep nothing away, they hear everything, cause they know how to listen
Teach them the game, so they know they position, so they can grow
and make decisions, that change the world, and break old tradition
They put kids in jail, for a life they ain't even get to start
that's murder too, and it's breaking my heart, it's breaking our nation apart
We gave the youth all the anger, it's just
we ain't taught them, how to express it, and so it's dangerous
You can't talk to them
Unless your language is relating to what they going through
so busy ignoring them, you can't see what they showing you
And you wonder, why we called baby-daddy's and baby-momma's
when we grow up, we can't act like adult mothers and fathers, yo
I'm so blessed to have a boy and a girl, everyday they bring joy to my world