Graphic Design Contests

**angele803** · 02-11-2007, 06:22 PM

I think we will be moving to a new system that will require something upfront. I know we have been talking about a new system for quite a while. It just takes a lot to program it, and our programmer stays pretty busy. I am sorry for all the non-payments and abandoned contests out there. I have been feverishly trying to contact these CHs.

**Captor of Sin** · 02-11-2007, 06:33 PM

I hope so because I really don't see myself entering anymore contests until something gets done.

You don't have to apologize, it's not your fault. Hopefully the new system will correct this problem. I for one appreciate what you have done for us designers over the last little while

Quote:

Originally Posted by angele803

I think we will be moving to a new system that will require something upfront. I know we have been talking about a new system for quite a while. It just takes a lot to program it, and our programmer stays pretty busy. I am sorry for all the non-payments and abandoned contests out there. I have been feverishly trying to contact these CHs.

**Republikin** · 02-12-2007, 03:44 PM

Perhaps another way of protecting sellers and buyers would be to make a big bold, undeniable suggestion in the contest forum that people use paypal and that contest winners bill the contest holder via paypal so they then have recourse under paypals seller/buyer protections.

**woosh** · 02-13-2007, 06:00 PM

Yea but rather time consuming too there's got to be an easier system I just got mucked about too

**Republikin** · 02-13-2007, 06:24 PM

Its not really that hard, just log into paypal and send an invoice via email. Just as easy as sending money via paypal.

**zemadz** · 02-14-2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republikin

Its not really that hard, just log into paypal and send an invoice via email. Just as easy as sending money via paypal.

But some people can not use PayPal. I for example.

**ghiavolu** · 02-24-2007, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xpressions

Oh geez, do I dare say this............."escrow"!

I like that!

**xpressions** · 11:27 AM

To angel and all admins: Thank you for your time and dedication to this site. We understand the logistical nightmare of tracking down offenders and your efforts do not go unnoticed. I think maybe looking into how other contest forums operate could be of assistance in curtailing abandoned contests (fishing expeditions) and runaways (non-payers). In my humble opinion, I think the following would help:

1. Escrow
2. A winner MUST be chosen. Considering the amount of the prize offered in these contests, I don't feel it's too much to request that a winner must be declared. Perhaps if the prize is higher than the usual, $20/30.00, then that could be waived depending on the "quality" of the entries.
3. Contests started at WT must be exclusive and can not be held at other forums.
4. IP tracking of new contest holders and designers. Why? It's easy to close out an account and open a new one in an effort to defraud the community.
5. Badges: "Approved CH", "Approved Designer". I understand the ratings, talkputation thing, but, it's easier to look over to the left and see a badge that immediately identifies someone as trustworthy.
6. Offenders should be banned ASAP.
7. All entries are to be posted on the forum, NOT via PM. Perhaps disabling the CH pm capabilities during a contest would ensure a level playing field. I think this is important 2-fold: 1. Designers can rest assured that their intellectual property is not being violated and, 2. Entries that violate copyright property can be immediately flagged, saving the contest holder from future grief.
8. Escrow

Just a few things to ponder. Regards,

**ghiavolu** · 02-24-2007, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xpressions

To angel and all admins: Thank you for your time and dedication to this site. We understand the logistical nightmare of tracking down offenders and your efforts do not go unnoticed. I think maybe looking into how other contest forums operate could be of assistance in curtailing abandoned contests (fishing expeditions) and runaways (non-payers). In my humble opinion, I think the following would help:

1. Escrow
2. A winner MUST be chosen. Considering the amount of the prize offered in these contests, I don't feel it's too much to request that a winner must be declared. Perhaps if the prize is higher than the usual, $20/30.00, then that could be waived depending on the "quality" of the entries.
3. Contests started at WT must be exclusive and can not be held at other forums.
4. IP tracking of new contest holders and designers. Why? It's easy to close out an account and open a new one in an effort to defraud the community.
5. Badges: "Approved CH", "Approved Designer". I understand the ratings, talkputation thing, but, it's easier to look over to the left and see a badge that immediately identifies someone as trustworthy.
6. Offenders should be banned ASAP.
7. Escrow

Just a few things to ponder. Regards,

I agree ALL those points !

**Captor of Sin** · 02-24-2007, 12:07 PM

I agree with xpressions as well.

**angele803** · 02-24-2007, 09:35 PM

Ive posted this in the Staff forums to get staff opinions!

**DaveMo~** · 02-26-2007, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angele803

Ive posted this in the Staff forums to get staff opinions!

Thanks, Angele.

Angele has been doing a great job of keeping this discussion going and the staff working on ideas (mentioned previously and otherwise) to make this a better forum. We're working on it!

Dave

**blake** · 03-24-2007, 01:44 AM

Here is a good article on contests:

http://www.no-spec.com/articles/design-contests/

Personally, I think contests should be limited to charitable, religious or community organizations. Or at least something for a good cause as defined by the artist/contest holder, (my business needs a logo -- cheap, is not a charitable cause).

Contests shouldn't be a venue for exploiting artists whether hobbyists or professional.

Also, keep in mind that most states regulate contests and some require filing with the state and fees. Some have age restrictions.

In addition to the above, whether watermarked or not, copyright ownership is automatically held by the creator of any artwork. Displaying it unprotected does not reduce the copyright holders rights in any way, even though damages may be limited in court.

This means that there needs to be some kind of contract in place at the conclusion of a contest (or the beginning when work is submitted) that expressly transfers specific rights to the contest holder.

You would have to check with applicable state and federal laws, but this could be compounded even more if the artist is a minor. Parental release may need to be granted, prior to any transfer of ownership.

**woosh** · 03-24-2007, 02:31 AM

Interesting reading blake but some of us do this for a living I myself work on about 6 different sites and this is an income for me. You can set up your own transfer of copyright that you can negotiate with the client if needed thats not really a problem. personally the site page you have linked to is opinions not based on fact

**blake** · 03-24-2007, 04:47 AM

The article was to throw in another perspective. Which I believe it did.

As for transfer of copyright, you mentioned negotiating with the client which is precisely what a contract is, preferably in writing, but verbal is still a contract, just one that is not easy to prove. Where it is tricky is if the designer is a minor (under 18).

I don't know about Australia, but here if a 12-year-old design a logo for the next "Google" or "Starbucks" and the minor's parents found out there would certainly be a lawsuit. I don't think that is right, but that is what can happen.

I could be wrong, but contest seem geared more to beginners than professional designers. Let's say you "win" 1 in 5 contests that you enter. It seems most contests average $30 for what could be at least an hour's work. That's $6/hr. That doesn't very profitable, so I am assuming the motivation for entering the contest for most is not money.

By the way, woosh, I noticed you posted a reply to:
http://www.webmaster-talk.com/graphi...-business.html

Did you noticed that what the person is asking for is illegal?

Some of he designs that I like can be found on templatemonster.com.
Please search for templates # 11058,7800,13554,10439.
Basicly if you could create (copy) one of this designs especially
11058 I would be more then satisfied.

That is outright copyright infringement.

Reading over my own post I know I am starting to sound negative, but many others have commented on the shadiness that has come to plague this section of the forum.

Here are some potential additional rules that might help:

Contest must have a deadline. Have the option to extend it (up to 2 times) if needed, but it needs to have closure.
Have a minimum response requirement that when met guarantees prize. For example, once 10 concept (or people) respond the prize must be awarded to one even if not used. This balances the risk and would deter people from viewing 20 designs and dropping the contest.
No copyright infringement or encouragement to do so allowed. Inspiration is one thing, but giving someone a monstertemplate # and telling them to copy it is just wrong.

**woosh** · 03-24-2007, 08:18 AM

Yes it is blake, and that was not what my post was about but more the fact he wanted files sent and payment after which i something i don't encourage any designer to do at the end of the day this is about whats happening on the forum now and what can be done to improve whats going on and that comes down to the admin team we can only air our views in the appropriate thread which would be here, most people here are relatively new to design and trying to gain a little experience as well as portfolio fillers and if they win some money from it hey , cool. At the end of the day the CH can hold the right to not accept any design if it doesn't meet their needs. Take a look at sitepoint for example.

**ydai006** · 03-25-2007, 07:36 PM

Yes, I agree. contest needs some templates.

**ghiavolu** · 03-27-2007, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Basicly if you could create (copy) one of this designs especially
11058 I would be more then satisfied.

Uhmmmm... i wonder why a guy would pay for a $65 template $600.
Escrow.LOL

**angele803** · 03-27-2007, 05:30 PM

We (the staff) have been discussing an escrow system. There is a lot to an Escrow system that people arent realizing. The main issues are the fees and the time and energy needed to maintain the system. It is a good idea, but not too easy to implememnt.
I do think people should be cautious of contests such as the one ghiavolu is referring to.
Also, we do have a listing template in the rules...people just arent using it.

**Learning Newbie** · 03-27-2007, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Writer

It's all a risk really and its up to the participants

The way I see it is if they don't label it, its not really theirs, they make it public...

Care to tell me where you park? Because the way I see it, if you don't hire armed guards to stand around your car, it isn't really your car, it's public. And I know I could use a new set of wheels.