I have been struggling with this question for a little while now as it has been brought to my attention that some people in the graphic design contests forum might be participating in concept theft.

To me, the term "concept theft" can be both loosely and strictly applied and is therefore unreliable as a means upon which to make a judgment. In other words, it's too ambiguous and can apply to anyones designs in one way or another. So what is your definition? I would really like to build a concensus amongst our community so we can determine how best to combat this problem, if indeed it is really a problem.

It's a tough one. I would say that sometimes a concept is an obvious choice.
For instance, A logo for a car site is likely to use a car, A template for a music site is likely to use images of instruments or musical notes.

I would say concept theft is when an idea that isn't obviously related to the theme is used. For instance, If someone is asked to design a logo for a racing site and they design a bunny rabbit wearing a crash helmet, Then someone else uses a bunny rabbit wearing a crash helmet it's fairly obvious that they have copied (or borrowed) a concept someone else had thought of as there is no logical link between rabbits and motor sport.

I would pretty much say it was for web design, when you create a particular element i.e. a menu to look a certain way, and then someone else makes thier menu in thier design look exactly the same.

On Sitepoint, they say that even just one particular element is know as concept stealing.

So could this definition extend to how many columns a layout has? For instance, if I was the first person to design a layout with three columns can no one else now use three columns? Also, where might I have gotten the concept of three columns from? Did I steal it from someone else, or was I inspired by someone else?

It's about the graphical design of something rather than the layout.

Say that i entered a contest and did a vertical menu, with a white to light gray gradient and orange links then someone did the exact same, that would be concept theft.

But, if someone did a vertical menu with a different gradient and some other coloured links in a different place, then that wouldn't be concept theft.

...does that make sence?

If someone asks for something specific like size, colour or font, then all the people entering the contest are going to follow instructions, but when someone steals a unique element of your design, this is concept theft, and it shouldn't be allowed, regardless of wether or not the contest holder provided a concept idea.

In the past I have had an idea and started work on a design, only to find that during this time someone else has submited a design that is a little to close to my design for me to comfortably enter it. In these rare cases I usually start again, and come up with a different concept.

here is an example of when i've felt someone had blatently copied my idea, neither of us won the contest, but the person who entered an almost identical design to me still decided to keep it in the contest, I don't think that should have been allowed to happen...

http://www.webmaster-talk.com/394366-post16.html

http://www.webmaster-talk.com/394366-post16.html

That, I agree would be concept theft. I personally didn't catch that one however, in the future just shoot me a PM if that happens.

I guess what I'm struggling with is the finer points of concept theft. Say if one person uses an $ instead of an S, is it concept theft if someone else uses an $ in place of the same S? Can anyone really claim that using an $ is an original concept?

Good answers too guys, Rep!

I think replacing an S with a $ is a common enough thing to make it a very hard call. If that is the only similarity it would be a bit harsh to pull them up on it, But if there are other similarities like shape, colour or font it might help you decide if ideas are being borrowed.

I have to agree with Matt on this one. I work in the healthcare industry, I design and build websites. There are soooo many things that are a common theme in this industry so it would be tough to claim concept theft for say, using a caduceus or a stethoscope in a design, it's everywhere. If I create something that is truly unique and not generally 'connected' to the theme of healthcare, and someone copies it, then I'd say it's concept theft. Coming up with something truly unique in today's media saturated world is not easily done either.

If a contest is posted and the originator has suggested a theme or concept, then there are going to be similarities in what people produce in their entries, it's almost unavoidable. I think the key is how MUCH of a difference is there ? The example DRP posted is pretty obvious, not changed enough at all to be considered original work. So, do you put out a percentage measurement - change it by more than 30% or the entry is disqualified ? Derivative works tend to be done this way - if you change it by more than some %, it can be considered yours.

Ok, so heres a new question. Should an Admin or Mod here at WMT be the sole arbiter of what is or isn't concept theft? Being that it can be, so easily, a matter of personal perspective.

I think what I'm struggling with is less of a physical problem and more of a philosophical dilemma. How can right and wrong be determined in an objective manner?

Perhaps if claims of idea borrowing are made we could have a poll in the mod forum and a thread to discuss each cases merits.

It probably doesn't sound very nice, but right and wrong can be determined in an objective manner if enough people objectively agree.

I was going to suggest a more democratic approach and say have a public poll, But that would be open to abuse, flaming and it wouldn't be very nice to "out someone" if it does turn out that they have done nothing wrong.

This is a good idea however I see a potential problem. We would have to put contests on hold while this process took place and this would not be fair to the CH. Since there is no real law or financial burden holding them to their obligation they are likely to abandon the contest.

Yeah, maybe a private panel may help decide, but you also must remember that even mods can be biased to a certain extent!

Maybe checks like designcontest.net should be used in the future in so that you have some security such aa making people submit a portfolio of work so you can see that the people can design on thier own without coping.

One thing however which designers forget when they submit to contests is that they are publishing thier ideas openly so designers are at thier own risk too!

This is really a tough question.

Lets say someone is holding a web design contest and the contest holder provides feedback on the submitted entries.

If he says "I think that layout is perfect but maybe you should try using more blue and red colors in the such and such" etc..

In this case I see nothing wrong with a new provider submitting their own new design based on that feedback using the same or similar layout as a previous entry.

I think the majority of the time using someone else's "concept" is ok as long you are not copying most of the previous entries design. Is the person using the same "concept" but with an original design? Then that would be ok IMO.

For example on this post. I would not consider consider it just using some else's concept, but rather basically using someone else's design and then making minor tweaks to it. In other words, stealing someone else's design.

I'm not saying it's necessarily the right thing to do, but people are using other people's concepts constantly on the internet.

By the way, a concept is basically an "idea." If you see a concept that seems to be working, is it wrong to take that idea and try and improve upon it? That's what businesses do all the time by looking at what their competitors might be doing successfully.

IMO there is a difference between using someone else's concept (idea) and stealing someone else's design all together.

So I guess the question is if the person copied parts (actual images) of someone else's design or used the same idea but made it unique in their own way.

Thanks for replying Tim. That is about where I'm sitting currently. I feel that the idea of stealing an idea is a bit frivolous.

Originally Posted by Republikin

Thanks for replying Tim. That is about where I'm sitting currently. I feel that the idea of stealing an idea is a bit frivolous.

I agree. What really get on my nerves is when people steal your concept, and they know they've done it but are just to **** ignorant to say sorry or try and fix it.

In contests, i think you need to take it as a compliment that people like your work so much that they want to copy it!

everybody is a concept thief really, there is nothing someone can make up out of their head that hasnt already been done somewhere in life. cavemen drew animals on the walls does that mean that anybody who has spray painted a wall with a pic of an animal is a concept thief , no. like DRP said sometimes your too late with your idea and someone else had it first. I dont think its about concept theft I think its just about theft. this is really an argument of symantics and trying to define "concept theft" will bring back a thousand and one idea's of just what that is. Heres my idea if two people in a contest have the same concept then whoever posted first gets to keep that concept and the other must agree to try something else, make it a rule.upheld by MOD's. look at this I was the first to post in this contest and look at most the other entrants http://www.sitepoint.com/marketplace/contest/2059