Hello,

(If I am in the wrong area of the forum, please excuse me. I am not familiar with programming languages. I just know my question is about a custom CMS and the programmers I hired are using my SQL. Please advise me if there is a different location I need to post my question in.)

I am a web designer and I really need some advice. I used to work on teams with programmers, but have been working on my own for many years now – outsourcing the programming on all of my projects.

My most recent project is for a very large company – it is the largest I’ve done on my own. I’ve hired a company to do the CMS panel and am really concerned that they are screwing me over.

When I originally hired them, I explained that my client will need the simplest, easy to update CMS panel possible. They admitted that they chose the CMS software before understanding the design. Also, they are using their own CMS software called “Carbon”. Now we are 4 months into the project and I am wondering if they are just trying to make the best of a bad choice – and that it is a bad solution for my needs.

It was explained to the programmers that the people updating this site would be non-programmers and that the client needs to be able to add links and banners where needed but that there needs to be a lot of restrictions because there is a strict style guide (this design is being implemented in 30 countries) that cannot be altered.

If anyone has time to help me, the testing site is: http://www.host3e.com/projects/2008/october/mtn
The admin panel is: http://www.host3e.com/projects/2008/october/mtn/admin/
User name: admin
Password: 123456

My questions are:

• Does this CMS solution seem appropriate?

• Shouldn’t they have custom built many of these layouts?

• Banners for the left side of the pages need to be uploaded through a banners link – others updated through the pages links.

• Some things like the grey lines in the tables (see: http://www.host3e.com/projects/2008/...tner-discounts) have to be manually edited in the source code – which is accessible through the CMS. The tables on all pages are manually built through the editor so the client needs to understand everything about coding tables.

I have many more questions but will keep it at that.

Because the programmers are 3 months late on this project, I am seeing everything in a negative light. Now I’m wondering if I’m expecting too much from the CMS. I’ve never had to work on a CMS system of this size with this many different layouts.

(The programmers are currently working on the CMS…so there are a lot of things not functioning properly. Some issues look really messed up – I’m also scared they are unfixable because I don’t understand.)

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Marija

Hmm...

I am seeing a decent WYSIWYG editor that creates the tables without any code. It looks to me like it is a premade system by the company on the domain that the site is hosted on. It doesn't look custom at all so I would be upset if you paid any amount of money for a custom designed CMS.

I'm not sure what you mean about the different layouts, but the design on the site looks nice.

Yes it doesn't look to bad a CMS, although I wouldn't say it was custom designed, as already stated if that is what you paid for then yes I would be annoyed.

Thanks very much for the replies!

The site was supposed to be custom made on Zend framework.

So, from your responses I see that it was not custom made...I don't understand the meaning of Zend framework - did they use Zend framework?

Also, the tables designs I provided have small details that are not able to be built with the tools. There is a 1 px grey line http://www.host3e.com/projects/2008/...ner-discounts1. I believe that they made the grey line on this page within the source code - I would not know how to re-create it.

The job said that the admin panel needed to be simple, yet comprehensive and extremely user friendly. Would you consider this user friendly?
- the navigation
- having to edit banners in 2 locations (left side and all home banners are uploaded through banners section and body banners uploaded through pages)
-fast find updated through menu sort order
-when we add pages, they just add to the long list of pages on the left...this messes up the breadcrumb and will lead to a future mess....

I was expecting to see an admin panel with a link for each page where you can simply upload everything from that page in one area (There are about 20 uniquely designed pages) - I didn't expect that my client would have to know so much coding to update their website.

Was I expecting too much? I'm guessing that this is a constant challenge that programmers have when dealing with clients who don't understand the limitations of programming.

Thanks again,
Marija

I don't understand the meaning of Zend framework

Basically, Zend is a php "system" of coding that programmers use. It has pre-made functions and bits to make coding a complex project go quicker and more efficiently.

I didn't expect that my client would have to know so much coding to update their website.

I didn't mess with enough to see the extent of knowledge needed, but the whole point of a custom designed CMS is that it should allow people with knowledge of basic text editors to usually make updates. Sometimes, it does help to have a bit more experience than text editing, but the concept is that the higher up front cost of a custom CMS will eventually pay off because the client won't have to call the designer for every little change at an hourly billing rate.

Over the years, I have seen many good and bad CMS systems. From a technical standpoint it looks to be pretty solid; however, I do not find for the average Joe it to be simple by any means.

I would have dumped them 3 months ago. I first sign of a bad thing is missing the due date. If it is a week or two late that is one thing. A month more its a totally different thing. If I was you I would be packing my bags and moving on. They do make a content management system called vivvo (www.vivvo.net). I realy do like the abilities and ease of use. They will even do the design integration. If you can get your money back and keep your client from leaving you might consider moving on.

Thanks TurnkeyInternet.

Yes, I tried to pay them off long ago, when they completely misunderstood over and over again Phase 1 of the project (which was just a tiny portion of the project).

At that point they claimed to have already started the CMS and moved on to Phase 2.....I should have ended it there but I broke my arm mid-project, then holidays (excuses, excuses....etc.). They are not entirely to blame for past issues...it got really confusing.

They had made enough progress that I didn't know how to pay them off anymore. They seemed to have a genuine interest in addressing my issues…so I just continued to provide feedback – hours and hours, and days and days of feedback. I saw as I was giving feedback that they were making progress, so I kept laying back on the feedback, trying to give them time to get it done.

Now they claim the site is done (they’ve done this before), however it still had many errors and bugs (plus other issues). I had had it…I threatened to file an Elance dispute resolution yesterday. They threatened that if I did that, they would take the site down and not provide support. Support! They are not finished with the job yet.

They’ve been manipulating language to make them look like they are not at fault and I have spent all of my time trying to figure out how to give feedback that will help support my claim in case they don’t get the job done – praying that they do.

They are claiming that I don't understand how to use a WSYWIG editor so it is my fault...they say they don’t see the errors from their end and I am going to need to document them all. There are so many it is a full time job to report on them and it is not my responsibility as a client to point out basic Q&A issues (I’ve told them this) – again their excuse is the errors are due to my not knowing WSYWIG.

I should admit that they were correct that some feedback I was supplying was due to my negligence, I did not expect to have to know how to program when I hired them to create an admin panel (again, maybe I was expecting too much?) I did receive some instructions and did not look at them properly and claimed errors that were my fault for not following directions…but many most errors have nothing to do with my knowledge of WSYWIG or inability to follow directions.

In the past, I’ve had programmers build sites several times before and the admin panels were always easy to use…but maybe this one is too complicated to expect that easy of an admin panel? Is it? I don’t know. I’m so worried - how will I teach this my clients how to update this admin panel? They will need to hire a programmer to update it. Even then, they are going to mess it up and call me for years to come.

Yes, I should have gotten rid of them long ago. I should’ve never hired them. But I can’t erase the past.

I’m absolutely terrified at this point and don’t know how to proceed. I feel like I am being pushed around due to my ignorance about programming. I want to pay them off and hire someone to finish it but I don’t know how to get rid of them or whether anything they’ve done is useful or if it all needs to be thrown away and restarted. Plus, if I agree to a compromise price to end it now, how can I trust that the files they turn over are accurate? They will be mad.

I contacted Elance for help. Haven’t heard back yet.

Would it have been possible to program a CMS panel of this size with about 20 unique pages (different tables, layouts, popups, etc) and have the user not have to know this much coding?

Is this the wrong solution?

What can I do now?

This sounds silly but I keep trying to send this project good energy – to visualize it done and everyone involved happy. But clearly it is not working…..yet.

Hi Racer X,

So, can you tell if they used Zend framework? Or is that impossible to tell?

Would Zend framework have provided an easier to update interface? or does that depend on what the programmer does with it?

I'm asking because I have on record that they promised to build a custom CMS using Zend framework. If this is not true, I might have some grounds to stop the project and hire someone else.

If they did not use Zend framework, do you think this admin panel, with about 20 unique pages, can be adapted so that the client does not have to know so much programming? Is the work done to this point saveable?

I meant WYSIWYG

The Zend framework is implemented on the server, and must be installed by the host. You'll need to check there to know for sure, as there is no way I know of to tell by looking at the site or public code itself.

How much would anyone out there charge to help me report bugs on this admin panel? you can email me marsinafrica at gmail.com - no spaces.

The public page wanted to install something when I visited. That is never a good sign to me. I admit to having security settings a little above average since I use IE but I do not intend to install anything to view a site.

Many of your clients customers are going to feel the same way.

Really!? Wow, thanks colbyt