Hi,

We all have studied about html frames while learning HTML.

But, I find rarely any site using them.

Are html frames really out of the market or do they have any use. I would love to hear your opinion about it.

I think frames are garbage, i have never used them, i have messed around with them when i was starting with html but they are basically out now, most people hates them.

Yes, frames are REALLY OUT!

Frames are hole for search systems.
As we have Ajax and js+DOM then frames are really out.

Frames are actually EASIER for search engines to index than javascript generated pages such as using AJAX.

Originally Posted by chrishirst

Frames are actually EASIER for search engines to index than javascript generated pages such as using AJAX.

That's quite ironic really

How is that ironic?

I still find many websites using frames, including google translator.

i personally don't use them, because i've purposefully avoided them since a long time ago i heard we shouldn't use them. but thats non-sense.

Frames are OUT, but still being used.

Frames are banned by accessability/disabled persons rights laws.

There is an issue with navigation from one frame to the next when....
....a surfer is using access keys via the keyboard to activate a button
....a surfer is having the page read out to them

Not sure, but feel there may be other issues about accessability.

In my view, it is more the fault of the Browser, as all frames are there creating the one single webpage in the browser anyhow.

I don't like frames that much they are out, but I do tend to use them time to time till I get a chance to build custom CMS.

I personally would not use them, especially for a clients website, I would feel quite unprofessional if I was to do that.

Originally Posted by Huggy

I personally would not use them, especially for a clients website, I would feel quite unprofessional if I was to do that.

Why??


Frames are a VERY useful tool in the right situations.

Frames are banned by accessability/disabled persons rights laws.

Where?

Certainly it is recommended that frames should not be used because of the potential navigation problem but not "banned". Maybe some individual agencies have "banned" the use of frames but it is not a global "law".

There are navigation and scroll problems with frames.

And in some cases, frame is very useful. For example, if you want to integrate a service or page from other party, frame will make the integration extremely easy and user experience will be great.

Thanks.

I agree that if done properly, frames can actually be quite useful. The problem, just like today, many have no idea what they are doing.

They are useful, I tend to use them intil I find & build CMS systems. Just try not to do over-do it lol.

ha ha maybe


<create a signature>

People who make blanket statements like "frames should never be used", haven't really investigated what a proper use for an IFRAME, or even a FRAMESET is.

The IFRAME is obviously still used very frequently, but did you know that even the FRAMESET has some good uses? I had never used one before until I found the need to have a section of my web application be re-sizable with a sliding panel. I'm talking of course about a panel that allows one area to be larger while the other is simultaneously smaller. This is a very common function in a desktop application, but is not usually done on the web. The first thing I did was try to implement a solution with JavaScript. This worked, and was fast enough with very simple information in the two panels, but was unfortunately excruciatingly slow with the amount of information I needed in the containers.

So what I did was load up a web application that I knew did what I needed, the hugely popular phpMyAdmin. phpMyAdmin has a re-sizable panel from left to right with the database fields on the left, and tables holding information about what you are browsing on the right. How did it accomplish this? A FRAMESET. You see, a FRAMESET is re-sizable by default. The developers in the 1990's usually disabled this because they were using frames for other reasons, but now, this was exactly what I needed.

So you see, even something as supposedly backwards as a FRAMESET still has a purpose in the right application, and the nice thing about my solution was that someone with JavaScript disabled, though they might not get the full featured application that I was building, would still get the re-sizeable panel that I wanted.

"People who make blanket statements like "frames should never be used", haven't really investigated what a proper use for an IFRAME, or even a FRAMESET is."

i disagree. most of the time we know that frames shouldn't be used except in exceptional cases (like your e.g.) but 99% of the time users post asking if/using frames are ok because they think things like
a) it makes their site load faster
b) it's easier to maintain
c) the menu can stay in the same place all the time
d) etc

so it's basically no (except in exceptional circumstances)

and often the people asking about the use of frame aren't usually doing a project where frames could be legitimately considered, or if they were they wouldn't be asking

It's true, they should usually not be used, and most of the beginner examples that people make to pose questions are examples where frames should not be used. My point is that the blanket statement, "frames should never be used" is false, because there are exceptions where using a frame is actually the right thing to do.

IFRAMEs are very common to be used for advertisements, because the contents won't be affected by the site's CSS. The IFRAME is much more useful than the FRAMESET, which is much more rarely needed. The IFRAME is also usually used for online WYSIWYG editors, including the one you're typing a reply when you use Webmaster-Talk. There are also many other uses, such as uploading images then having a callback, displaying the uploaded image without a page refresh, which cannot be done with AJAX but can be done by targeting an IFRAME. Thousands of applications use this technique. Of course some server side scripting is required for this as well. If you want, I can list a dozen other examples of IFRAME usage.

Beginners shouldn't be using frames, because doing so will create bad habits. But once you know what you're doing, frames can actually be quite useful.

actually i should have made it clear in my post that i was only referring to frames when i talk about frames NOT i-frames (yes i know they're inline frames lol )

they (frames) may have their uses but there things to overcome like accessibility issues and bookmarking, so as long as you're aware, and overcome those problems, then go ahead. i have no problem with recommending iframes but i would also advise looking at scrollable divs IF they might fit the bill