For me one of the hardest tasks of web design is getting out of the customer what they really want. I've asked for sample sites (links to site they like) and for drawings of the general concept / idea for their new web site ....but I've had varying results.

Is there a better way?

How do you get from the initial meeting with a new cutomer to having their web site live on the web?

Is a face to face meeting required or highly advisable?

A face-to-face meeting is "high advisable," for sure. It'll make your client feel warm and fuzzy. And it'll give them the opportunity to point to different parts of the screen, and show you what they like/don't like.

I'm not a web designer by any means ( actually I'm here looking for advice on how to de-uglify my site ) but sometimes I run into the same problem with portrait photography - trying to communicate artistic concepts and get the client to agree on something specific even when they don't understand the terms.

A lot of the time when there's trouble here, surprises have been good - I'll have something in mind that's "better" than what the client expects. But I don't count on that - if I get an idea this is going on, depending where in the process we are, either I'll show three or four prints and point out the similarities and differences and explain how that relates to what I'm proposing ... or if I've already started shooting, I'll show them what I'm doing every five exposures or so.

So ... translating that ... I guess have as many pre-built examples as you can for specific concepts ( might be more useful than full pages incorporating them ), and check in with the customer often, so when they shriek "NO!!!" you've put less effort into it.

i draw the site design on a napkin otherwise, i do exactly what you had mentioned. another way is to make a fake design in one of macromedia's products. forget its name - where you can show them the quick design before actualy building it

How about content ideas? Once I get past the design hump I still have issues with content. They want to say this but have no clue how to fill the rest of the page.
I ask them to write down 7 to 10 ideas they woudl like to convey on their web site. I also ask for links to friendly sites (if any) they would want to link to.

Anyone have a better way? I rack my brain with this one.

DotHQ, welcome to the club. You're not alone and often getting information for the client is by far the hardest part of any web site. I basically do the same things you do. Most of my clients don't live in my area so face-to-face is out, but I like to have at least one phone call to talk directly. I've usually been able to get most to at least give me a couple of links (ask for stuff they like and don't like and reasons why).

Sometimes the key is just listening even if it doesn't seem like they're being overly helpful. A client might mention the word elegant a few times and I then base the site on a feeling of elegance . Or fun, or simple...

As for content my first question is are you being paid to work on the content. That should be an extra to the design and development of the site and if you are working on the content you should be charging for that.

I find though that often clients have no idea what their content is. They just know they want a website and haven't thought through what the site is supposed to do so have no idea what to say.

To really create effective content for a site you need to understand the industry, the specific business, the goals of the business, the goals of the site, etc. That's why you should be charging to create it.

All you can do though is keep asking the client to deliver the content to you. If you're expected to write some of it keep asking the same questions you are and do your best. Look at other sites in the industry and see what they say.

I'm not sure there's a good answer. Getting info from the client is a skill unto itself. Sometimes you have to take 10 words from a single word they say.

Understanding the customer needs & implying them to your design could be hardest part of your work. Usually a customer is not a technical person & his terms of referring the things are far different from what you could understand. Meeting face to face is a good option to understand your client & his needs better, but what plays an important role is Communicating. It could be telephonic talk, email discussion or chat.

As per my knowledge, the best way of understanding your customer needs is showing them the sample. For this, according to me Templates could give the best idea to your customer of what his future web would look like. While showing the templates you can use number of sites available on net or make your own template gallery & offer it to your customer.

You must also give time to know what are his favorite websites & what attracts them the most. Thereafter understanding your customer’s client is also equally important & making the website design suitable for their surfing plays a important role too.

starlington makes some good points. I think we all need to remember that our clients in most cases won't be as technical or as experienced in design as we are. And while we'd love them to use a specific terms to describe something that just might not be the way they would describe something.

There's nothing wrong with that either. It is why they are coming to us in the first place.

I like the idea of showing some basic templates. Even if a client can't come up with sites they like or dislike we all know sites with lots of design examples that we can show them.

A part of our job is communication and interpretation. Communicating what we know to the client and learning to interpret what they want even if they can't always phrase things the way we want.

Actually, YOU are the designer and 99% of the time the customer has NO idea what they want, they 'just want a web site'. So, the more important question is 'what is the purpose of the site' and 'what do they want to achieve with the site' ??

They should have goals in mind before they start the process. I used to ask the same questions - do they have examples of sites they like, color schemes, etc. and it rarely works. You can also ask to see examples of their current print marketing materials - catalogs, brochures, business cards etc. Most companies have some established identity system and you can use that to come up with a design. Go with colors or the 'feel' based on what they already have, it creates a cohesive package that fits in with their existing marketing materials. Most clients wouldn't want something that is a huge departure from that.

I usually make up 2-3 comp designs, each a different style and let them choose. they can choose elements from design 1 and put it in design 2, etc., hopefully you'll wind up with something that they like and have participated in creating.

I think it depends a little on the client. I have had my share who only know they want a website, but I have had some with very clear ideas about what they want the website to be. Most tend to fall into the "I want a website" group though.

When my clients have had a logo or some other identity designed that they plan on keeping I do work to match the site to that identity. I'll use their logo for the color scheme of their site and look to match the feel of their already deigned identity.

I agree that the most important things to find out are the purpose and goals of the site, which sadly many people often haven't thought about. They just know they want a site. I usually begin with people by talking to them about their business and try to help them formulate their goals for the site.

Good stuff guys. I guess I'm not alone in this issue. Sorry for not being more active in this thread. I thought I was set for email notification ....but I wasn't. I wasn't even subscribed.

I've asked the questions and gotten next to nothing back way to often. Vangogh is right that many times a face to face is not possible. And you have to read a lot into what they say. I prefer to have the communications in writing, but then you do not hear the emotion associated with what was said ....and as anyone online knows, the written word can be easily misinterpited.

I started to create a few MS Word documents to show various basic layouts to give the customer an idea, but never did finish that project. I went to sample HTML pages instead. That seems more applicable.

I never thought of charging extra for content as our CSS guru Ladynred pointed out. Very good thought. I'm afraid if I went to far with that I would price myself out of the market. But, many times I would be doing myself a favour. Can you tell I enjoy the forums & hosting side of the business more than the web site creation? I find after a while I fall into a rut. I'm not creative enough.
Anyone looking for free lance web design work feel free to PM me. I'll put you on a list to call when I'm overwhelmed.