Internet Marketing Tycoon

**EditFast** · 07:42 PM

I have read, researched, tested, experimented, and implemented a wide range of techniques and methods of promoting web sites. I am tired of all the work and the trial and error. I know there are numerous companies out there who would jump at the chance to help me promote my sites, many of them have already contacted me and I have contacted several myself. However, so far I am not impressed. Most of the companies contacting me are simply looking for clients to hand over their money for what I call "auto-promotion" using software to submit to search engines and classified ad sites which we all know is a recipe for.... nothing. If you are one of these companies, please do not respond to this post. My reason for posting is to get your recommendations for advertising companies that will do the advertising and promotion for me. I hope you will refrain from promoting your own company here. That is not what I am looking for. Ideally, I would like to hear from people who have used the services of a company such as this and have been pleased with the results. Your help is appreciated.

**xpsave** · 03-05-2008, 10:55 AM

1) I don't have an advertising company
2) I've never used any of these companies

Would you mind telling us what you have tried and what the results were?
I don't think that advertising companies have a magic button or something similar. They probably implement the same methods you have try but they'll know what works best for your website/industry and they'll focus their efforts.

As I said, I don't know what you have tried but maybe it was on the wrong track or you were not persistent enough?

**EditFast** · 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xpsave

Would you mind telling us what you have tried and what the results were?

I don't want to name names. The people I have used in the past know who they are and they are probably reading this right now. I have tried search engine marketing companies, banner broadcasting companies, I even tried and AdWords implementation company. as well as others. Before and after using these companies I did all of the above myself with far better success than they did.

Quote:

I don't think that advertising companies have a magic button or something similar. They probably implement the same methods you have try but they'll know what works best for your website/industry and they'll focus their efforts.

Yes, they did do exactly what I did, but with far less success. When I showed one company the difference between what they did and what I did, they immediately implemented my methods with no apology, or offer to refund my money. These companies DO NOT focus their efforts. They simply do as little as possible to get as much money as possible so that the clients end up with a generic campaign that may help those who are just starting or who know nothing about this and are happy with even minimal results.

Quote:

As I said, I don't know what you have tried but maybe it was on the wrong track or you were not persistent enough?

I have been doing this since 2002 and I have tried 8 different companies. ALL of them were worse than worthless in that my site ranking actually went down after I stopped and let them take over.

I have been persistent but your question as to whether I am on the right track seems to hit the mark. I have come to the realization that I am not on the right track and that I need help. This is the purpose of this post--to find legitimate, honest, effective and reasonably priced help.

**willcode4beer** · 03-05-2008, 07:12 PM

For your type of business, if you are in a large city, you might consider hiring a salesman to go sell your service to local businesses. Direct sales is still pretty effective.

A second approach would be to pick up your local yellow pages and work with a normal (not web only) advertising firm. Work with them to identify your target market and focus your advertising dollars on that group.

Another option could be to troll the freelance boards (like guru.com) searching for translation and proofreading projects and submitting bids.

While none of these will directly push traffic to your site, they should all help develop your business. You could get repeat customers to come in through your site though, and your customers may turn out to be your biggest promoters.

**EditFast** · 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willcode4beer

For your type of business, if you are in a large city, you might consider hiring a salesman to go sell your service to local businesses. Direct sales is still pretty effective.

These are all good ideas. Unfortunately, the above is not really workable for me as I live in the "wilderness" (I have cable Internet so not quite as wild as it sounds) a few hours from the city. However, since EditFast is Internet based it may be possible to do this and have the salesperson simply tell potential clients how easy it is to send me documents and use the service or select their own editor out of the 1300 editors registered at EditFast.

Quote:

A second approach would be to pick up your local yellow pages and work with a normal (not web only) advertising firm. Work with them to identify your target market and focus your advertising dollars on that group.

This is a good idea as well but the "normal" marketing people are not as Internet savvy as they need to be. I am not just being negative here, I say this from experience.

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Another option could be to troll the freelance boards (like guru.com) searching for translation and proofreading projects and submitting bids.

This is good advice and should be standard practice for any business.

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While none of these will directly push traffic to your site, they should all help develop your business. You could get repeat customers to come in through your site though, and your customers may turn out to be your biggest promoters.

That is well said. I have repeatedly found that the best customers come from direct referals from previous clients.

**xpsave** · 03-06-2008, 05:52 AM

Another idea is to attract search engine and social media traffic. In order to do that you could start a blog on you specific subject/niche. Target your articles on the keywords in your field and this should bring in some targetted search engine traffic. On top of this you could submit your articles to digg/stumbleupon and then buy diggs and stumbles to bring even more traffic to your blog and eventually to your website.

Another idea is to go sell your services on forums like digitalpoint. You would need to build your reputation in order for people to trust you there. Current prices in your field seem to be rock bottom for this channel (i.e. selling through forums). However, I know people that have managed to gain trust and are now charging quite a bit for their services.

Despite my suggestions above, I would guess that CPC campaigns would bring in highly targeted traffic. Maybe your Adwords campaign was not optimized? (e.g. bidding on the wrong keywords) Or maybe you could try Yahoo Publisher Network and MSN?

I hope this helps

**ADAM Web Design** · 03-06-2008, 12:40 PM

First of all, EditFast, I think you should name names. If the companies you name read this thread, one of two things will happen:

1) They'll realize you're right and end up doing something to fix it. At the risk of self-promotion (which is NOT the intent here), here's a recent example where I was spammed by a payment processor, posted the spambait, and had another employee in the company start making changes. To my surprise, the changes were actually made.

2) They'll get all pissy with you and probably throw a childish fit. At this point, the more respected and intelligent people on this board (Learning Newbie, willcode4beer, whym, chrishirst, Forrest Croce, about a dozen others) will be able to see right through it (assuming you're right) and will proceed to layeth the smacketh down on your behalf. Believe me, this isn't a board where a spammer can pull off BS and expect to get away with it.

As far as your marketing goes, I tend to agree with Paul the most, but with a slight twist; you're not going to find any online marketing company that will truly help you. Why? Because they can't get a real grasp of the day-to-day operationi of your business, your competitors, your customers, things like that. The people that will get the best idea of how your business works are the ones inside of your own business. Right now, that sounds like you and that's pretty much it...and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. But you're probably your own best marketer.

If not, I tend to agree with Paul; a local salesperson might be the best approach. However, the problem with good salespeople is that they're nomadic creatures and liars. Often the best approach is to find someone knowledgeable about your line of work and that can still speak to customers (maybe one of your editors?)

**Learning Newbie** · 03-06-2008, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xpsave

I don't think that advertising companies have a magic button or something similar. They probably implement the same methods you have try but they'll know what works best for your website/industry and they'll focus their efforts.

Actually they do have a magic button, except it's not really a button so much as an education, or lots of employees who are educated, in terms of marketing. It's sort of like how I'm a computer programmer but I don't know how to change my oil, so I need to go to a person who's an expert in car mechanics. I could devote 10 years to learning about cars so I would implement the same methods as a real mechanic if I happened to have a hydrolic pump and all that.

The idea that one person can do anything anybody else can do, automatically, is something that's only going to hurt people who hold onto the idea. I don't know what kinds of demographics and psychology and communications and design and, well, you get the idea, those people on Madison Ave have when they do your advertising. To learn all that would take so much time I'd have to neglect my site until it dies.

Paul probably has the best advice you'll find at least so far in this thread.

**VirtuosiMedia** · 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xpsave

Another idea is to attract search engine and social media traffic. In order to do that you could start a blog on you specific subject/niche. Target your articles on the keywords in your field and this should bring in some targetted search engine traffic. On top of this you could submit your articles to digg/stumbleupon and then buy diggs and stumbles to bring even more traffic to your blog and eventually to your website.

Another idea is to go sell your services on forums like digitalpoint. You would need to build your reputation in order for people to trust you there. Current prices in your field seem to be rock bottom for this channel (i.e. selling through forums). However, I know people that have managed to gain trust and are now charging quite a bit for their services.

I also would recommend starting a blog and giving away a certain amount of information or services for free. It's just like what retail stores do, they have their sales with items that they don't make a profit on, but those items get you into the store. <profound> Once you're in the store, you're far more likely to buy something than if you're not. </profound> Take a loss on what you give away for free, but use it to promote everything else you do. If what you give away has value, those who use it will be far more likely to become customers. Free is viral.

If you've never heard of it, there is a free optimization tool that I use and recommend. It's called WebCEO. I'd try it out. It can automate a lot of your work.

**Learning Newbie** · 03-06-2008, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VirtuosiMedia

<profound> Once you're in the store, you're far more likely to buy something than if you're not. </profound>

Define "far more"? And how does the equation change if people are coming in to get something for free? If someone says free dinner, I'm liable to leave my wallet at home, after all.

If you're going to risk real income aka revenue on the vague notion that it will make people buy more things from you, I think some people might want to try and quantify the risks and rewards.

**VirtuosiMedia** · 03-06-2008, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

Define "far more"? And how does the equation change if people are coming in to get something for free? If someone says free dinner, I'm liable to leave my wallet at home, after all.

If you're going to risk real income aka revenue on the vague notion that it will make people buy more things from you, I think some people might want to try and quantify the risks and rewards.

Yes, you might leave your wallet at home that time, but what happens if you like the food? Would you ever think about going back, even if they don't have a free meal? If Johnny's steak house has a free steak, I'm there. If I love the steak, I'm probably back again, even if I have to pay.

Bringing visitors in for free content establishes a relationship with them. They might not buy today, but they'll remember you if you offer value. Creating a recognizable brand and establishing a relationship of trust with your customers, at least in my opinion, is more important than getting them to buy just once. I'm going to buy from someone I trust more often than someone I know nothing about. And if I trust them and I get value, I might buy more than once.

What if you had to take a survey or give your name and address in exchange for the free meal? I probably would, especially it it's steak. Though you don't have to, you also could give your free content away in exchange for an email address. If someone is willing to give away their email address to view your content, you've already pre-qualified them as a better lead than just any sort of visitor. It means they're interested in what you have to offer. A mailing list is valuable.

And there's nothing saying you can't advertise your products/services with your free content. The free content signals the potential customer that you know what you're talking about/doing and it pre-qualifies you as a reliable source of information and as an authority on the subject.

If nothing else, consider the free content/services as an advertising expense.

**ADAM Web Design** · 03-07-2008, 04:36 AM

I'm with John on this one. The idea of giving away content for free, particularly with a blog, is a mid-shot at best. Regular blog readers/posters/commenters tend to be geeks a lot of the time, and geeks tend not to be purchasers or look at ads or do any of the other commercial stuff themselves (they're blind to a lot of it).

This whole "my company needs a blog" thing is eventually going to run its course and people will eventually come to realize what a scant few of us out there already know...blogs require too much time and maintenance for too little reward to be a viable commercial entity. Don't just set up a blog because everyone else is doing it...set it up because you think it might work.

Quote:

If you've never heard of it, there is a free optimization tool that I use and recommend. It's called WebCEO. I'd try it out. It can automate a lot of your work.

Except that it's the type of program that actually violates Google's guidelines, among other things (e.g. the promotion of the ultra-idiotic "Link Partners" idea).

Search engine software is a sick joke that has been played on the SEO industry for over a decade, and the SEO industry continues to fall for it.

**VirtuosiMedia** · 03-07-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADAM Web Design

Except that it's the type of program that actually violates Google's guidelines, among other things (e.g. the promotion of the ultra-idiotic "Link Partners" idea).

That part slipped by me, thanks for pointing that out. I take back my recommendation of that software.

As for maintaining a blog, I agree, it can be very time consuming and it isn't always worth it and each company needs to consider the benefit of having one. However, I wasn't necessarily advocating just blogs. Rather, I was suggesting free content or services in general as a way to draw customers in.

For example, if you own a bank, you could offer a free online credit report. If you are a web developer, you could offer free estimates, website reviews, or a few articles on webdesign. If you have an online bookstore, you could offer a free (pre-selected) book with any purchase. Of course, all of this is just my personal opinion, so take it for what it's worth. You have to do what you think is best for your own company.

**willcode4beer** · 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xpsave

Another idea is to attract search engine and social media traffic. In order to do that you could start a blog on you specific subject/niche. Target your articles on the keywords in your field and this should bring in some targetted search engine traffic. On top of this you could submit your articles to digg/stumbleupon and then buy diggs and stumbles to bring even more traffic to your blog and eventually to your website.

I disagree with this. The Digg/Stumbleupon community are not likely candidates for translation and proofreading services. The average users of those services are students, not business types (who this business targets).

I can't help but wonder if some of the posts here are just canned responses.

Did anyone other than Adam actually think about how their response look when compared to the business being promoted? Give away free information? about proofreading? translation? c'mon, get real
A blog talking about the adventures of proofreading? I don't even think professional proofreaders are going to want to read that, let alone possible clients.

It seems like he's got the basics going (for the type of business). He's building clients through job boards and referrals from existing clients. For this type of service, it is a solid way to build the business.

**vangogh** · 03-07-2008, 09:53 PM

You could blog about how to be a better writer. Posts could lean toward the technical side and be about rules of grammar. They could lean toward the creative side of writing itself (By creative I just mean the process of writing. It could be business writing or any other kind of writing). They could be both or somewhere in between. All would help convince potential clients that you are capable of delivering on your services.

Is it work? Sure, but you need to work at promoting yourself if you expect to stay in business. You're going to have to do something to get clients to sign on with you. Writing one article a week on a blog isn't all that hard, especially if your specialty revolves around the written word.

A good percentage of my clients have told me it was my blog that convinced them to contact me. I'm not saying everyone should have a blog, but at the same time they shouldn't automatically be dismissed because some think they're simply a fad.

EditFast as far as the original being tired of promotion it sounds like you're changing your mind a little already, which is good. Whether you want to or not you're going to have to promote your business in some way. Ideally you'll reach a point where other people talk about you enough and recommend you enough that you don't need to, but until then you have to do something.

I obviously don't know the companies you hired and it doesn't sound like you had a good experience with them. From your description it doesn't sound like they were worth the time. That doesn't mean all companies will be that way.

There are good companies and bad and as much as we all wish we'd only have to deal with the former we're going to run into both kinds.

**ADAM Web Design** · 03-08-2008, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willcode4beer

IDid anyone other than Adam actually think about how their response look when compared to the business being promoted? Give away free information? about proofreading? translation? c'mon, get real.

Dude...the only problem with this comment is that the people who should be reading it won't have a clue what you're saying and will continue to spout the same ad nauseam advice.

You're going to have to drop about 100 IQ points if you want to fit in 'round these parts, son!

**VirtuosiMedia** · 03-08-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willcode4beer

Did anyone other than Adam actually think about how their response look when compared to the business being promoted? Give away free information? about proofreading? translation? c'mon, get real

I did, actually. And I still stick by it...He's already started doing it by offering a free estimate, but he might be able to do even more than that. Free information can also come in the form of things that people should look for in hiring a proofreader or translator, why they would need those services, etc. But it's not only free information I'm advocating, he could also offer a free first proofread or translation (it would have to meet certain criteria, of course) to get people in the door and establish a relationship with them. If he does a good job and they like his services, they'll be back. What's more, they'll recommend him.

I know this isn't a website review thread, EditFast, but just as a suggestion, you might have a higher conversion rate if you make it a little clearer what your site is about and by using a few more colors to draw the eye to your call to action, which is the free estimate in the center. As it stands right now, everything kind of blends in and when I first pull up your website, I'm not sure what it's about until I hunt around a lot. Also, your call to action (your submit button) is below the fold, for my viewing at least.