Internet Marketing Tycoon

**Karira** · 03-31-2006, 11:01 PM

I couldn't find anywhere specific for this to go, so may as well ask here. Does anyone know what the rules are surrounding free music downloads on your site? I've heard that as long as you warn the guests that they could get in trouble for possessing shareware with no intention of buying the CD, you can't get pinned for anything, but that seems flimsy to me. Well, let me know.
Thanks.

**chrishirst** · 04-01-2006, 04:38 AM

It's illegal. Simple as that.

**ChipJohns** · 04-01-2006, 05:06 AM

The horses mouth - Music Piracy - Getting a License

**Karira** · 04-01-2006, 07:20 AM

Thank you both.
ChipJohns, I will look into that.

I've heard that streaming music isn't illegal - like Myspace does. Do you have any advice regarding streaming effectively?

**gizmotron** · 04-01-2006, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karira

I couldn't find anywhere specific for this to go, so may as well ask here. Does anyone know what the rules are surrounding free music downloads on your site? I've heard that as long as you warn the guests that they could get in trouble for possessing shareware with no intention of buying the CD, you can't get pinned for anything, but that seems flimsy to me. Well, let me know.
Thanks.

"We think we are so great in our protests...but we just become the bitter offspring of what we oppose. We become prisoners in our own cages. We begin to speak in badly constructed melodramatic prose! OH, RAGING HORROR!! Make this stop!!" -- JTHM

It's so simple to explain ripping someone off. To have a legitimate career in the music business you have to get past the second album just to break even. Without writer's royalties the writer ends up getting nothing for the collaboration to create hit music. But don't worry about that. Theres a great solution to your trip free dream. Have undocumented aliens create your musik. After all 5,000,000 undocumented alien construction workers have effected the value of those jobs to the extent as to drive down the cost of being an American carpenter at now only half the price. It is no wonder that Americans no longer wish to do that kind of work. Ripping off people has its own consequences. What do you do to make an income? Perhaps there should be a free replacement for your craft. Protest that with "OH, RAGING HORROR!!"

**ChipJohns** · 04-01-2006, 07:26 PM

You will still need a license, similar to broadcasting over the radio. A radio station has to purchase this license and so does a web site that wants to stream music,

It is a very hefty fee..

**Karira** · 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gizmotron

It's so simple to explain ripping someone off. To have a legitimate career in the music business you have to get past the second album just to break even. Without writer's royalties the writer ends up getting nothing for the collaboration to create hit music. But don't worry about that. Theres a great solution to your trip free dream. Have undocumented aliens create your musik. After all 5,000,000 undocumented alien construction workers have effected the value of those jobs to the extent as to drive down the cost of being an American carpenter at now only half the price. It is no wonder that Americans no longer wish to do that kind of work. Ripping off people has its own consequences. What do you do to make an income? Perhaps there should be a free replacement for your craft. Protest that with "OH, RAGING HORROR!!"

I think we got off on the wrong foot here. I am in no way looking for a means to flout the law, or even find a loophole in it. I was merely trying to find a way to stay within the law while making my site convenient to viewers. [May I add that, after this conversation, I have decided it best not to provide music downloads on my site.] I can anticipate your repartee to this - that even if it were legal, I would be doing something for free that some people get paid for. As for the alien construction workers, I see your point. It's a rather sad predicament, and in my opinion, we should do everything for free and then no one would have to "make" a living, and there would be no jobs to devalue. But the point here is that I figured the artists whose music I would be offering for download are making quite enough money to be getting on with. Though I understand your view; it's just wrong, in a Robin-Hood kind of way. But when you think about it, to go to extremes on this passion would be foolish. The coding help on this very site - some people get paid for that. My site journal, my poems, my rants - if I were to be a writer, I should hope to be paid for some of those. And as I've said, I've decided not to offer the downloads, and not just because it is difficult to get a license, but because of what you said. That is the solution and the resolution, and if you disagree with anything I've said above, I'd prefer we not argue about it; to go any further would start an argument about values -- most certainly off-topic on a webmaster forum, and not a pleasant experience. I'm not doing the downloads, and I think that was your goal.

If we've got that cleared up, I was wondering if your last question about my 'craft' was rhetorical. Even if it was, I am curious to know if you were thinking I actually make an income. You see, I'm fifteen, and if I write eloquently enough to make you think that I was older, then I'm flattered. But if my revealing this confirms your worst fears - that I'm immature and don't understaned the true value of things, well, so sue me. I'm fifteen. However, if you didn't already have any preconceived notions about me, I beseech you don't start now.

This has been an enlightening conversation. I thank you in advance for your understanding.

P.S.
To your jest at my signature: I hope you understand that the humor of it lies in the fact that I am not melodramatic like that.

**gizmotron** · 04-02-2006, 02:22 PM

Quote:

But the point here is that I figured the artists whose music I would be offering for download are making quite enough money to be getting on with. Though I understand your view; it's just wrong, in a Robin-Hood kind of way.

There is a misconception about what an artist actually gets and that is the fault of the dream makers own doing. You see, the perception of success is part of the charm in selling pop culture. The truth is that 90% of all so called "made it" artists in the music industry are in debt up to their eyeballs. It takes touring, a form of advertising that rarely if ever breaks even, to promote a new artist. That includes thousands of dollars to hire publicists to get a new artist charted & played on the radio. When all is said and done the band gets about one dollar per CD or 12 cents per song. Out of that the band must pay off their advance to the record label. So any new act coming out of the gate has to pay for the publicist fees, the recording costs, new equipment, and touring costs etc...

So in the end, unless you sell at least two million albums, that actually get paid for, you are just as rich as you used to be before when you where flipping burgers.

That leads us to you. You're fifteen and in the target market demographics for music consumption. Even your attitude about the value of things has been factored into what you will become. You are already captured by the system that will soon consume you. If you think that the world needs to be run for free then one step from that is to have an employer take care of you and give you a chance at life based on the needs of your employer and not at all your own well being. The best way to pallet this it to rationalize that most others got this way too. Even the poorest dirt poor rock band knows that playing in a club, chasing the dream is better than succumbing to a mandated servitude based on euphoric belief systems that work best at the expense of others. I find this fact the most interesting of all the complaints of life. What can I get by obfuscation that I wouldn't be able to get from my own capabilities at their current level.

Resistance is futile.

**ChipJohns** · 04-02-2006, 08:48 PM

(1) Karira,Don't sweat it! It is obvious that you are looking to do things in a legal way. Or else you would not have made the post to inquire about the right way to do it. You made no suggestions about getting around things and running your own napster..

(2) Gizmotron, (just a short deposition and I am done.) According to your premise all performers must be a superstar or nothing at all.

There are bands that sell their music on smaller music labels and only sell a few hundred thousand cds and they are happy with that and DO make money doing it. There are too many people playing music and not selling more than 2 million records a year that disprove your theory..

Point taken. Its not easy . The record companies are making most of the money. But, As I watch most of the performers on mtv and others. They are all doing fairly well, even though most are not superstars. - if they are in debt it isn't because they are not making enough money, its because they can handle the money they make.

<rant>
And the notion of having to go on tour to promote your new cd... Well most artists, at least in the beginning, are in it for 2 reasons, and the first isn't the money, its the dream of playing before 20,000 people. The money is second.

Why do bands like Aerosmith keep going? They are millionaires (NOT IN DEBT!) and they do it not to make money. They do it because they love playing music, and they are grateful to have the opportunity to be able to do what they do, and yes, make awesome money doing it..

And if a performer does not like performing in front of people, well its part of the gig. I love developing web sites, but I am not in love with prospecting for new clients- we all have to do things to sell our product. In the music business its touring.

I am sorry I use to play music and I sympathize with the plight of the musician. I just can't see every time the issue comes up, people jump up on their soap boxes and support the poor pitiful musician and his woes of stardom, are lack of..
</rant>

I do look forward to a rebuttal, however, I have made my point and given my perspective..

My 2 cents -

**gizmotron** · 04-03-2006, 03:56 PM

ChipJohns said:
"(2) Gizmotron, (just a short deposition and I am done.) According to your premise all performers must be a superstar or nothing at all."..

All performers signing a multi-million dollar contract must sell millions to break even.

ChipJohns said: "There are bands that sell their music on smaller music labels and only sell a few hundred thousand cds and they are happy with that and DO make money doing it. There are too many people playing music and not selling more than 2 million records a year that disprove your theory.. " ..

These bands that play large clubs and mid sized venues still have to pay back the smaller music labels. It still is proportional to debt versus cost before any profit is shown.

ChipJohns said: "Point taken. Its not easy . The record companies are making most of the money. But, As I watch most of the performers on mtv and others. They are all doing fairly well, even though most are not superstars. - if they are in debt it isn't because they are not making enough money, its because they can handle the money they make."..

Is that really the truth or just that you believe that should be the truth? The truth is that these bands that are on MTV have signed themselves to a world of dept. I might add that the one hit wonders of them tend to default on that debt and never end up paying it back.

Here is a lesson in music 101 for you. A CD costing $12 retail at Walmart, etc.., costs $6 to get from the warehouser called a jobber. This distribution contractor pays $3 to get it from the record label that must pay the cost of pressing and packaging before selling it to the jobber. So for that speculative investment by the label there is not much more than $1.50 after back-charging the band their $1 until the debt is payed off. All this is a great investment if the band sells multi-millions. It's the big hits that end up paying for the defaults on the speculation's that don't pay back. Somehow out of that the label hires a publicist to attract airplay for the band.

ChipJohns said: "<rant>
And the notion of having to go on tour to promote your new cd... Well most artists, at least in the beginning, are in it for 2 reasons, and the first isn't the money, its the dream of playing before 20,000 people. The money is second.

Why do bands like Aerosmith keep going? They are millionaires (NOT IN DEBT!) and they do it not to make money. They do it because they love playing music, and they are grateful to have the opportunity to be able to do what they do, and yes, make awesome money doing it..

And if a performer does not like performing in front of people, well its part of the gig. I love developing web sites, but I am not in love with prospecting for new clients- we all have to do things to sell our product. In the music business its touring.

I am sorry I use to play music and I sympathize with the plight of the musician. I just can't see every time the issue comes up, people jump up on their soap boxes and support the poor pitiful musician and his woes of stardom, are lack of..
</rant>

I do look forward to a rebuttal, however, I have made my point and given my perspective..

My 2 cents -"

Funny that you mentioned "Aerosmith." Do you know what they had to go through to get out of their seven album recording contract? They were dirt poor for the first seven albums. They chose to fulfill that original deal in order to gain their freedom from it. They were dirt poor while putting on the illusion that they were rich. It is in getting their freedom from a bad deal that they finally where in a position to make a better deal for themselves. After they were out of debt they started to make good money and a more meaningful existence.

Have you ever heard the phrase "throw it up against the wall to see if it will stick?" That was Atlantic Record's technique back in the late 80s. They would sign a perfectly good band to a million dollar contract and give it a small push. If that didn't work then the band was dropped owing back the million bucks. It's all legal, even the little labels do it.

Dreamers, with dreamer mentalities... that's why there are so many local recording studios and guitar, amps, and drum shops. That's why so many show up to audition for American Idol. It's the "smell on the steak" that all the rats follow the Pide Piper into the drink for in the first place.