Liability & Legality

**Lpspider** · 07-31-2006, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FriedBob

Using this same logic, I guess it is OK for me to go into your home and "drink a few beers" without your permission or knowledge, if I can break in to your house. Afterall, "it's your fault you allowed your home to be broken into". Same thing. Not only does this violate many state and federal laws in the US, it also is sure to violate the ToS for AdSense, the AUP and/or ToS for Myspace, and also the ToS and/or AUP for your service provider.

Being the vindictive person that I am, if one of my accounts were affected by such activity, I'd be tracking down the user responsible then contacting myspace, google, their ISP, my state attorney general, their state attorney general, and a federal prosecutor.

But, what is most disturbing to me about this (using phished accounts), is that someone would even have to ask "is this illegal".

There is a difference. If you were to break into my house and drink a few beers, you'd be consuming something I own. If you were to go into my house and use my toilet, I'd have no problem with that, albiet be a little alarmed for your intrusion. The same is for myspace. The phisher isn't destroying or consuming anything, only borrowing a quick post, which can be deleted if the user wishes.

As for it's legality, I know "phishing" in general is illegal, but is it in this case? It's illegal to phish paypal accounts for credit cards and such, but is this doing anything other than breaking myspace's TOS?

**Lpspider** · 07-31-2006, 02:53 PM

Just another FYI - I do not support phishing and have never/will never do it. This are just my philosophical views. :P

**imported_rob** · 07-31-2006, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lpspider

There is a difference. If you were to break into my house and drink a few beers, you'd be consuming something I own. If you were to go into my house and use my toilet, I'd have no problem with that, albiet be a little alarmed for your intrusion.

Wow.

**Lpspider** · 07-31-2006, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob

Wow.

Great strong, specific and constructive post. Could you be a bit more specfic than "wow"?

**imported_ipodman** · 07-31-2006, 09:16 PM

What you are doing is illegal and I know people who have been fined for doing it1 I would not even mention it on a forum

**ReBoot** · 07-31-2006, 10:34 PM

Well, just think that it is your site and you only have 1 member (your friend) managing 100 accounts. Do you think it's legal? If you have read the TOS you can see if it is legal or not.

**Lpspider** · 07-31-2006, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReBoot

Well, just think that it is your site and you only have 1 member (your friend) managing 100 accounts. Do you think it's legal? If you have read the TOS you can see if it is legal or not.

Just because something breaks a sites terms of service does not necessarily make it illegal. If you think that, you're a little to gullible.

**FriedBob** · 08-01-2006, 03:15 AM

According to US Federal Law, specifically the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CCFAA), and modified by the Patriot Act, "Knowingly accessing a computer with the intent to defraud and there by obtaining anything of value." is against the law. The computer accessed would be the servers that host Myspace, the something of value would be the additional adsense revenue.

As for the "consumption" thing, even something as simple as flushing a toilet would involve consumption, possibly the toilet paper used, and certainly the water used to flush, though both would be generally considered immaterial.

As for the resources consumed from the phishing, there is the time spent tracking down the fake posts and removing them, the generation of a new password, and the time spent learnign it. More than likely, new passwords will need to be generated for many different uses as people tend to use the same couple of passwords over and over. there is also the additional revenue from adsense, which was obtained through fraud (as that is what phishing is)

**IsMaR** · 08-01-2006, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lpspider

There is a difference. If you were to break into my house and drink a few beers, you'd be consuming something I own. If you were to go into my house and use my toilet, I'd have no problem with that, albiet be a little alarmed for your intrusion.

What if I broke into your house and chilled drinking my own beer?

**-JJ-** · 08-01-2006, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsMaR

What if I broke into your house and chilled drinking my own beer?

Then you would just be charged with breaking and entering.

-JJ-

**BamaStangGuy** · 08-01-2006, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lpspider

There is a difference. If you were to break into my house and drink a few beers, you'd be consuming something I own. If you were to go into my house and use my toilet, I'd have no problem with that, albiet be a little alarmed for your intrusion.

I don't know about you but if somebody just walks into my house and uses my bathroom they would be leaving in handcuffs or in a worse condition than before they entered.

**Hexation** · 08-01-2006, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaStangGuy

I don't know about you but if somebody just walks into my house and uses my bathroom they would be leaving in handcuffs or in a worse condition than before they entered.

Ya seriously, go use nature if you have to go bad enough to break into someones house. lmao

**imported_Luke** · 08-01-2006, 06:07 AM

Lets just hope this wannabe hacker used a proxy!

If you are reported and myspace look into you hacking accounts they can locate you, inform your ISP, inform the police, inform your mum :P and if they do decide to look into it further they could get you banned from Adsense!
Its all a matter of time until people get busted! I have been in a similar situation many years ago and just by farming AOL account usernames and passwords I was removed from AOL and mum was informed etc etc, was lucky to get off and very lucky police didn't get involved (I was only 15 which helped me).

Also just remember that myspace logs IPs on every login! If myspace have half a brain they will catch you!

If you do decide to continue I cant stress enough about getting a webproxy just to mask your IP! and at $300 a day you know I would continue :P

**imported_Koz** · 08-01-2006, 06:25 AM

on the weekend a drunk guy knocked on my door then proceeded to pee on the wall! Good thing I had 2 big dogs :devil:

If you realy want your ads on a site, be it myspace or any other, just ask them to do it. If they are your target audience then they'll probly say yes

**ltn1dr** · 08-01-2006, 08:19 AM

The way I see it, its up to your conscience. Personally, I don't really care if the accounts are phished or not. You can buy MySpace accounts and you have no clue if they're phished or not. I've bought a few that I'm pretty sure they were phished.

If it makes you money, I'd say go ahead. If the worst they're going to do is shut down a site of yours that wasnt making money before and now it is, I would say onwards.

Just do what you wanna do as long as you know the money you make from it surpasses the consequences.

**FriedBob** · 08-01-2006, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltn1dr

If it makes you money, I'd say go ahead. If the worst they're going to do is shut down a site of yours that wasnt making money before and now it is, I would say onwards.

Just do what you wanna do as long as you know the money you make from it surpasses the consequences.

Is $300 a day worth having the FBI kick your in your door and confiscate all your computers? Is it worth having felonies on your record? Is it worth gonig to federal prison? That's right, federal. This is business and it crosses state lines, therefore it falls under ferderal jurisdiction.
The passwords were fruadulently obtained, and the original poster knows how they were obtained. This would make him at the very least an accomplice, but since he is using them knowingly, I have a feeling prosecutors would see him as a partner not a simple accomplice.

As my prior posts referenced, there is federal law being violated here. If it becomes known, Google may not only revoke the adsense, but sue to recover some of the money that was fraudulently paid out.

**imported_mattd** · 08-01-2006, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltn1dr

If the worst they're going to do is shut down a site of yours that wasnt making money before and now it is, I would say onwards.

That is probably the least they'd do! This is premeditated and knowingly wrong-doing. The fact that its here on the forum with a load of people saying "no this is wrong. dont do it" just makes him look even worse if he is caught.

I am not sure about the laws in the US, but in the UK you'd cerainly get done for the illegal access as well as obtaining the details, sending fraudulent communications, as well as potentially defrauding google & their customers (i.e. advertisers using google), and being liable for the costs for MySpace to clean up the mess you left behind. Knowing how America does things you'll probably get much much worse there.

**Nocturnal** · 08-01-2006, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lpspider

I know phishing is bad and I'm against it. However, if the users aren't blocked from their account - I don't see the problem with posting a few bulletins here and there. I mean, it's thier fault they allowed their account to be hacked/phished.

Just because you leave your car door open or house door unlocked, does that make it okay to go and steal the car or wander into the house and steal whatever is available? Your logic is flawed.

**ltn1dr** · 08-03-2006, 08:49 AM

From what I heard, FBI only gets into these things if and ONLY if the damage exceeds $5,000 in cash.

I researched it when this moron DDOSed my server once lol.

**Lpspider** · 08-03-2006, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nocturnal

Just because you leave your car door open or house door unlocked, does that make it okay to go and steal the car or wander into the house and steal whatever is available? Your logic is flawed.

Your logic is flawed. You're not stealing whatever's available. You're simply using the account when you have access to it. You can't change the password and the user can shut you down anytime. There really is no cost to them - like stealing a car.