Others Ads, Offers, & Services

**ADAM Web Design** · 06:58 PM

That's right, after much deliberation and thought, vangogh and I have decided to use our unique positions on W-T as solid contributors and posters who people actually read to give others the opportunity to make some money by buying our signature links. Promote your business, gain PR, and make money off our hard work!

One signature link is available for $1.50 per post per month from either of us, or take advantage of our EXCLUSIVE COMBO OFFER! Buy a signature link from both of us for just $2.50 per post per month!

For more details, please provide us with your PayPal account email address for recurring monthly billing. No PMs please...leave your email address here only.

This is not a real offer, and is only designed to teach people a lesson about why signature link selling is silly. As such, it may not be combined with any other offer. This offer does not expire, because it isn't an offer. Positive response to this offer may result in your public humiliation.

**Learning Newbie** · 02-19-2007, 08:30 PM

I'm trying to keep my current web site under wraps, but honestly, if this were a real offer, I think it would probably be more valuable than all the directories you could apply to in 8 hours. That's a complement, in the sense that a certain poster who usually offers bad advice, and has a Mac symbol for an avatar, well, no one would want their link in some peoples' sig.

**ADAM Web Design** · 02-19-2007, 09:05 PM

That poster is no longer able to offer said bad advice. Look closely under his username.

And thank you.

**Republikin** · 02-19-2007, 09:25 PM

Reading this at first I thought that Tim had made a bad choice in a moderator however, after reading the fine print I was really relieved. I honestly thought I had reason to be alarmed at first.

**Kirtan** · 02-19-2007, 10:01 PM

at first.Then think

. Realized

Adam you are

**ADAM Web Design** · 02-19-2007, 10:32 PM

Actually, Steve and I are looking to deliver a message using a bit of a different tack. So far, it hasn't quite gone the way I expected it would (not sure about Steve.)

Mind you, that's not totally a bad thing. At least we see other people getting it. That's always a plus.

**ForrestCroce** · 02-20-2007, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADAM Web Design

So far, it hasn't quite gone the way I expected it would (not sure about Steve.)

How about $1.75 for both of you, with a Slick Rick album thrown in?

**ADAM Web Design** · 02-20-2007, 10:38 AM

Slick Rick? Album? Can't do it.

Jimmy Buffett Greatest Hits 11-CD box set with DVD extras? Okay.

**memberpro** · 02-20-2007, 11:27 AM

What an amazing offer....

I am sure that anyone who takes your offer will generate $1000's of dollars by getting Laser-Beam Targeted Visitors delivered Automatically to their site..

Did I forget any buzzwords?

**ADAM Web Design** · 02-20-2007, 11:52 AM

Yeah. You forgot PageRank, $ale$, and SEO.

**Learning Newbie** · 02-20-2007, 04:40 PM

So, what happens if you pay someone to put your URL in their signature, and then they post a message telling someone else to go to ****? Am I wrong in thinking that would reflect poorly on your site? And doesn't Murphy's Law say that's the one that would come up at the top of the SERPs?

**ADAM Web Design** · 02-21-2007, 01:16 PM

Interesting question. And I tend to agree. That's why I don't pay anyone to post. That...and who's gonna post the stuff that I say anyway besides me?

**mgraphic** · 02-21-2007, 01:50 PM

Ha, ha, ha, ha!

**trichnosis** · 02-22-2007, 03:07 PM

http://www.webmaster-talk.com/sugges...link-sale.html

**vangogh** · 02-22-2007, 07:09 PM

trichnosis I agree with Tim about not selling links. The point of this thread isn't that the sig space is really for sale. It's a tongue in cheek thread to highlight that buying sig links isn't a good idea.

I've actually been offered real money to add someone else's links in my sig and I refused. The space is too valuable to me as far as my reputation is concerned.

So why is selling sig links a dumb idea?

1. Sig links don't carry much weight. If you buy them you are getting ripped off.

2. As a buyer you have no control over what the poster is going to say. If you pay for links in someone's sig and that person starts spouting racist crap guess what? People will assume your site also agrees with those thoughts.

3. If you sell your sig space and link to garbage sites you might find that your legitimate sites in your sig begin to look a little more like garbage to search engines. Garbage is as garbage does or something like that.

4. Forums suffer when people start selling sig space since the motivation for posting becomes the count and not the quality. I see people all the time looking to purchase links in sigs and they always have a minimum post count as part of the criteria for the sale.

For anyone looking to buy or sell links in signatures you might want to think twice and realize that from either side of the equation it's not a good idea. The potential for damage on either side far, far outweighs any money transferred in the sale.

Want to know how to get traffic from a forum? Sure you do. Make good posts. Make them helpful, useful, informative, entertaining, and interesting. If you do that people will click on them. Pretty simple huh? Almost sounds like the same advice for your site.

Oh and if anyone really does want to buy my sig space the price is much more than what Adam listed at the start of this thread. I'm thinking you need to give me enough so that I can close shop for a year and start over again with a new site. You should also note my post count at the time of the sale, because it's doubtful it would ever increase after the sale.

And yes I am kidding since the space isn't for sale.

**ADAM Web Design** · 02-22-2007, 11:55 PM

What Steve said. This was not a serious post. I just wanted to take a fresh angle at the "let's all sell links and exchange them and we'll all beat the search engines" myth.

**DesignQuote.Net** · 09:02 PM

I am looking to buy signature links and I would like to discuss this with you because I havent yet bought any but I have read your reasoning and I still thinkits a good idea. Although I do agree with your points, the way I envisioned it happeneing is a little different than you described - lets examine your points:

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

trichnosis I agree with Tim about not selling links. The point of this thread isn't that the sig space is really for sale. It's a tongue in cheek thread to highlight that buying sig links isn't a good idea.

I've actually been offered real money to add someone else's links in my sig and I refused. The space is too valuable to me as far as my reputation is concerned.

So why is selling sig links a dumb idea?

1. Sig links don't carry much weight. If you buy them you are getting ripped off.

-- Im not sure what you mean by weight - I am not interested in weight, I am interested in reaching my target market which is the readers of web design related forums

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

2. As a buyer you have no control over what the poster is going to say. If you pay for links in someone's sig and that person starts spouting racist crap guess what? People will assume your site also agrees with those thoughts.

-- As a buyer I would only even consider someone with a good reputation thats been active for long enough to build up a good reputation on the site. And if someone started posting racist crap I would end my business relationship with them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

3. If you sell your sig space and link to garbage sites you might find that your legitimate sites in your sig begin to look a little more like garbage to search engines. Garbage is as garbage does or something like that.

-- totally agree with this - but i am not promoting a garbage site so this doesnt apply

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

4. Forums suffer when people start selling sig space since the motivation for posting becomes the count and not the quality. I see people all the time looking to purchase links in sigs and they always have a minimum post count as part of the criteria for the sale.

-- i was never planning on paying per post - i am looking for people that already post on a regular basis - paying per post would be stupid IMO

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

For anyone looking to buy or sell links in signatures you might want to think twice and realize that from either side of the equation it's not a good idea. The potential for damage on either side far, far outweighs any money transferred in the sale.

-- I am thining twice and I still dont see the issue or the damage potential if each party is ligitimate.

Anyone who has a link in their signature that is not for a charity is essentially selling their signature. If a signature link links to a commercial site then the person is selling the link - so it may be a site they run that sells advertising, or maybe its a site that runs adsense or sells a product.

Essentially its the same thing.

Would it be any different if I created an affiliate program that the person participated in and used that link. Or put the affiliate program on their site, then linked to that site in the signature? Every commercial link in a signature is selling that link in a roundabout way - theres no getting around it.

** edit: case in point - click ADAM WEB DESIGNs links in his sig - the first one has google ads on it - and look at van goughs signatures - his links are selling web design and hosting - essentially they are PAYING THEMSELVES to ADVERTISE TEHIR OWN SITES - its somehow OK if there is only one person involved? but if a second party gets involved its bad... this seems a little hypocritical to me

I have a commercial site, I need to expose as many potential customers to that site as possible. I buy PPC ads on all the major search engines, i buy links and ads on major web sites, I advertise.

So If i have a ligit site that is actually in the same interest of the people reading this forum, and I want to partner with the active members of the forum, what is the problem?

I am truley interested because as i said, I have not yet purchased any signature links, but i had been thinking about it for a while and decided to give it a try on a few forums.

If you can really demonstrate that this is a truley bad idea than i will reconsider, however I dont think you have demonstrated that as of yet.

I am very interested in hearing everyones feedback on this.

**DesignQuote.Net** · 05-25-2007, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADAM Web Design

What Steve said. This was not a serious post. I just wanted to take a fresh angle at the "let's all sell links and exchange them and we'll all beat the search engines" myth.

And just for clarification, if thats the "weight" referred to in the previous post let me make it clear im not trying to "beat the search engines" - at any rate forum posting pages dont amount to doodly squat when it comes to google pagerank - I want clicks not links to increase PR

**vangogh** · 11:11 PM

Wes you make some valid points, but I think you missed the main ones Adam and I were trying to get at.

No one ever said not to have links in your sig. Of course you should. Part of why many people post at forums is the marketing. There's nothing wrong with that. In a sense it's the online equivalent of handing out a business card. But it goes much beyond simply posting. You do need to put in a considerable amount of time being a genuine member of the community. That takes a good amount of time and it isn't sold cheaply. Keep in mind that if I were to sell you space in my sig I would be getting that much less traffic so you'll not only be paying for the time to build a reputation, but the loss of traffic.

Now let's say you pay me to include your sig in my link and I agree. Then I start spewing garbage all over the forum. It's going to reflect on your brand and possibly cause more harm than good. Do you know for certain I wouldn't do that?

Once I've agreed to sell you links based on what you see as a good reputation, what's to prevent me from changing that reputation? You might think you're only buying based on past reputation, but you're also stuck with the future reputation as well.

For me I don't want to damage my reputation by promoting a site I have no control over. How do I know if you're not pushing spyware on people with a download. You may have a really good site, but I don't know everything about it or what you may do to it tomorrow. If you want me to really look into your site I'll probably charge you more for the time to the point where it might not be worth it to you.

As for "weight" that's one of the ways the value of a link is often referred to. A valuable link is sometimes said to carry more weight than a low value link.

Let's keep in mind you never really buy sig links. The moment you stop paying the link is gone so you rent them at best. Also once you pay you really don't have control over whether or not the sig link stays. You could be buying links from someone who'll take your money add the link for a time and then remove it.

Unless you really know the person buying or selling the link you just don't know what they're going to do. Getting to know me will take more than giving me some money. And if you do get to know me to the point where I like you, you might not even need to pay me. I'm happy to help out a friend, but I'm very selective in who I call my friend.

**DesignQuote.Net** · 05-26-2007, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

Wes you make some valid points, but I think you missed the main ones Adam and I were trying to get at.

No one ever said not to have links in your sig. Of course you should. Part of why many people post at forums is the marketing. There's nothing wrong with that. In a sense it's the online equivalent of handing out a business card. But it goes much beyond simply posting. You do need to put in a considerable amount of time being a genuine member of the community. That takes a good amount of time and it isn't sold cheaply. Keep in mind that if I were to sell you space in my sig I would be getting that much less traffic so you'll not only be paying for the time to build a reputation, but the loss of traffic.

Totally agree with the business card analogy and the time investment to become a genuine member. And your right about the loss of traffic, although if you were only adding a link and not replacing one it probably wouldnt be as detrimental.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

Now let's say you pay me to include your sig in my link and I agree. Then I start spewing garbage all over the forum. It's going to reflect on your brand and possibly cause more harm than good. Do you know for certain I wouldn't do that?

Once I've agreed to sell you links based on what you see as a good reputation, what's to prevent me from changing that reputation? You might think you're only buying based on past reputation, but you're also stuck with the future reputation as well.

I can easily answer this one. I am NIKE shoes marketing agent. I dont play basketball, I cant get on a major league team, I cant build rep or street cred. What I can do is make a deal with Michael Jordan.

Now, I cant gurantee Michael Jordan isnt going to come out tomorrow and say that he doesnt like homosexuals or that dogfighting isnt such a bad idea, but i can, based on his past reputation, feel fairly good that he will rep the NIKE brand well, and Michael Jordan thinks NIKE has a quality shoe so he is happy to endorse it and out his name on it.

Now - I guarentee you that if he pulls an Imus we are out of the deal and no more money flows, and we disassociate with Mr. Jordan.

The sports world is the perfect analogy because sports stars are also doing something stupid and losing their merchandiding and sponsor deals.

This is been going on for a LONG time and I think its a pretty darn good analogy for what I am trying to do here.

But before we get too far along here - dont get the idea that I endorse all forms of sig link selling - I saw a post on SitePoint marketplace for someone saying they would pay 20 - 33 cents per forum posting or blog posting - I can see the falacy in that immediately, its just pure spam bait promoting garbage posting.

I wouldnt want my site associated with any kind of garbage like that. However I dont think that just because there is potential for abuse the whole concept is bad.

Blogs, wiki, link exchanges all have there downsides, but when they are done well they work, its only when people try to game the system that it gets ugly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

For me I don't want to damage my reputation by promoting a site I have no control over. How do I know if you're not pushing spyware on people with a download. You may have a really good site, but I don't know everything about it or what you may do to it tomorrow. If you want me to really look into your site I'll probably charge you more for the time to the point where it might not be worth it to you.

I totally understand Mr. Jordan, here are a few pair of NIKEs, go ahead and give them a try on the court and see what you think. If Nike does anything stupid you are free to stop promoting our shoes.

Its definitly has to be a mutual thing, which is why I only want respected members of the community who actually understand, agree with and actually like the site! Its an endorsement and I dont expect anyone to endorse something they think is garbage!

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

As for "weight" that's one of the ways the value of a link is often referred to. A valuable link is sometimes said to carry more weight than a low value link.

Gotcha, and your right - forum links are worth much when it comes to PR weight - but im looking for reaching out to members with something they want, mainly freelance web design work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

Let's keep in mind you never really buy sig links. The moment you stop paying the link is gone so you rent them at best. Also once you pay you really don't have control over whether or not the sig link stays. You could be buying links from someone who'll take your money add the link for a time and then remove it.

Unless you really know the person buying or selling the link you just don't know what they're going to do. Getting to know me will take more than giving me some money. And if you do get to know me to the point where I like you, you might not even need to pay me. I'm happy to help out a friend, but I'm very selective in who I call my friend.

Excellent points. I totally understand about the "renting links" - but again im going for clicks not bulding my link count for PR - i want people clicking on these links to check out the jobs!

And yes, I cpould pay someone and get stiffed, but like i said, Im looking at people that have a decent rep and I think thats a risk im willing to take.

I already spend a lot of money promoting this site, im always exploring new ways to get in front of designers and still think this has potential.

I think I can shape my deal that would not encourage spam postings, and would get my site to be "endorsed" by a "star" - I think I can do it in a ligitimate way. Has the well been posisoned already so that even an honest good deal cant happen now because of the abuse thats happened?

Would a decent member not even consider it now???

PS: Thanks for the great response VanGogh! This is really helping me explore this idea. Before this thread I hadnt really read anything about sig link sales! This is a great thread.