I watched the news last night and was stunned to see someone I thought to be perfectly sane describe the video tapes released by the U.S. Military of Iranian swift boats operating in a threatening way in the Straits of Hormuz, as very questionably credible. While I think its great that people question everything fed to them by the government, or a news outlet, to automatically dismiss or discredit everything put on the news sounds like stupidity. It has likely gotten to the point where we all believe the things that we like and agree with, and discredit things we don't.

Here's my survey question. In your opinion, did the U.S. Government fabricate the tape of the boats, as Iran alleges, or are they real?

Where's the tape? I haven't seen it, so I have no comment.

Personally, my standpoint on the media is that they're all a bunch of liars. Everyone fabricates everything, or at the very least all of the media are guilty of not fact-checking things. I stopped paying attention to it over 10 years ago, and it made me a whole lot happier.

I have no idea who is lying and who´s not. But I think both parties will lie when it suits them.

I have no idea, and no way of knowing. The only way I can think of to answer this question is "Which liar do I believe less?"

Common sense says that if what our government is alleging, is true, the Iranian boats would be destroyed. And for good reason, self defense. I don't think what we're accusing them of is something Iran's government would find immoral, harassing the Americans. On the other hand, it seems more likely they would have martyred themselves to bring down one of our ships.

Based on GWB's obsessive desire to make war on Iran, and the way the NIE found its way to the public with no loyal Bushies to suppress the information, the few facts available to us suggest neither party is being honest with this situation (surprise!) and we're being asked to take a man at his word who's known to lie at any opportunity, and unquestionably dragged America into a war of choice based on lies. The motive to do the same is evident. That doesn't change that whatever did happen in that sea, but I can't take this administration at its word just because it asks me to.

It seems both sides might have been telling the truth in the Persian Gulf of Tonkin incident.

I think the American tape is correct. Why? Because the Iranian leader (I can't spell his name and I don't want to!) is a warmongerer and a guy that is continually sly and manipulative. I'm definitely not a George Bush fan, but the Iranian guy just seems even more unreliable!

From what I've taken of all the news coverage, and videos I've seen from both the Iranians and Americans what happened was this:

A half dozen Iranian patrol boats saw the passing American fleet and hailed them on the radio asking there heading then watched the Americans go on there way.

A few minutes prior to that the American fleet had received another radio transmission threatening to blow them up. Apparently this threat didn't come from the Iranians but was a hoax from a local trickster who is some what infamous in that region for sending out weird(and some times threatening) radio transmissions to passing ships.

Russell has what seem to be the correct version. At least it's one both sides are acknowledging.

And it means that both sides were telling the truth. The Americans said they received a threatening radio transition, and they did. The Iranians are saying they didn't send it, and they didn't.

Originally Posted by whym

Because the Iranian leader (I can't spell his name and I don't want to!) is a warmongerer and a guy that is continually sly and manipulative.

I agree... But at the same time just because he has the capacity to lie doesn't make him 100% guilty of this specific incident. Also you can't say our own president hasn't been sly and manipulative.. We haven't seen the actual threat being made but we see the aftermath which is sort of odd which leads me to believe someone is lying. I'm leaning towards the US government.

I am a little ify because of the whole there is weapons of mass destruction in Iraq when there was none thing.

Originally Posted by Mattmaul1992

I agree... But at the same time just because he has the capacity to lie doesn't make him 100% guilty of this specific incident. Also you can't say our own president hasn't been sly and manipulative.. We haven't seen the actual threat being made but we see the aftermath which is sort of odd which leads me to believe someone is lying. I'm leaning towards the US government.

Exactly what I'm talking about. Bush lies, Hilary lies, Reagan Lied, everyone lies. You get both sides posting clarification on what happened, which justifies both stories, yet people post saying "If someone lied between Iran and the U.S., it was the U.S.. It's ridiculous. No matter how much you dislike the U.S. or it's leadership, there is no comparison with Iran. Get a grip. I'm sure someone will try and argue this point, but he/she won't be Iranian.

Originally Posted by cbwm

Exactly what I'm talking about. Bush lies, Hilary lies, Reagan Lied, everyone lies. You get both sides posting clarification on what happened, which justifies both stories, yet people post saying "If someone lied between Iran and the U.S., it was the U.S.. It's ridiculous. No matter how much you dislike the U.S. or it's leadership, there is no comparison with Iran. Get a grip. I'm sure someone will try and argue this point, but he/she won't be Iranian.

They are afraid to say anything because if they do they will be killed. America is probably the deadliest country in the world! THey take what they want, when they want, and they don't let other borders stop them. They think they are the police of the world and everyone should worship them.

Originally Posted by Iwantyou

They are afraid to say anything because if they do they will be killed. America is probably the deadliest country in the world! THey take what they want, when they want, and they don't let other borders stop them. They think they are the police of the world and everyone should worship them.

I think you are way off. Do you have any specifics or only generalizations?

Originally Posted by Iwantyou

They think they are the police of the world and everyone should worship them.

1) We are the police of the world, and I don't think that role is one that is desired by most Americans or myself. I imagine most Americans would much rather leave the French policing the world, or the U.N.. We all saw what a wonderful job they did in Rwanda.

2) I don't think you everyone should worship America, or even Americans. There can only be one god, and he is a jealous god. Now on your knees and worship me.

Originally Posted by cbwm

1) ... There can only be one god, and he is a jealous god. Now on your knees and worship me.

In the 80's I was working in the Persian Gulf - actually spent a lot of time in Bahrain where US Navy ships frequently stopped for repairs and refueling. While there I heard loads of stories from Navy personnel (I'm embarrassed to say hanging out in the same bars I was in) about "suicide" speedboats racing at the US ships off the coast of Iran. Apparently it was a common occurrence and standard procedure was to try and warn them off and then fire a few rounds near them, which always made them turn back for home. I'm surprised this made the news.

Hello All -

Interesting debate. I had a Communications Teacher once who said, "all of Communications is an attempt to persuade." Hard to argue with that.

The question is, when there is a debate, which side is presenting more of (or all of) the truth?

I couldn't vote in the poll. Not enough information. Remember how the US Military fabricated information about the woman war-hero, POW, in IRAQ? They will fabricate when they want to. IRAQ is not trustworthy either. They have said that their God permits deceptions and lies so they may rid the world of infidels (that's us -- and they'll do it any gruesome way they can).

I'm not down our our country, or the military. Like any country we have great achievements and scandals and downfalls. It is human nature. And, the truth, when it comes to words, is always a matter of interpretation.

So... how do you decide what to believe in the midst of propaganda? I think part of the answer is considering different points of view from different sources.

- Scott

Don't know about this one but historically there were cases when the government did some montage.

"For decades following the Civil War, the portrait of Lincoln shown on the left graced the walls of public buildings and classrooms. But Lincoln never posed for this portrait. Instead a photograph of Lincoln's head had been superimposed onto a portrait of the Southern leader John Calhoun. This was done because there were hardly any appropriate 'heroic-style' portraits of Lincoln made during his life."

Source: http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/photos/02calhoun.html