The secularists on this site have been a pretty outspoken group. A couple of you openly accused Bush of trying to eliminate the line between church and state. I myself also spoke out against the idea of Mr. Huckabee as the U.S. president lest he start preaching to us from the Oval office. Given all that, there has been a lot of talk about Mr. Obama's faith in the news of recent. Here is an article that summarizes it nicely:

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...812.shtml?s=lh

Given that:

a) Obama is highly religious
b) His church preaches black solidarity rather than integration
c) Rev. Al Sharpton is now directly connected to his church.
d) His pastor voices his political opinion loudly to his congregation on every subject from Zionists to 9/11.

Does Mr. Obama's faith concern you?

I don't have enough information based on one article to make a fair determination and vote in your poll.

Fairly sure this will be well explored should he become the nominee.

Well just because his pastor is outspoken about certain things does not necessarily mean that Obama believes that.

I look at it like this...you can believe what you want and worship where you want as long as your religious beliefs don't interfere with either your job, your livelihood or the rights of others.

Besides, from what little I've heard from the Obama camp, he disagrees with his pastor on a number of things...and that's assuming, of course, that his pastor believes those things himself as opposed to just saying them. Again, either Obama or the pastor could just as easily be blowing smoke up everyone's *** and that wouldn't surprise me either.

Mind you, I haven't paid that much attention to this election, simply because all the so-called "politics" sound nearly identical to me on this one.

"Politicians...they all sound like game show hosts to me" - Sting

Whatever one's religion in his private life may be, for the officeholder, nothing takes precedence over his oath to uphold the Constitution and all its parts -- including the First Amendment and the strict separation of church and state.
John F. Kennedy

Obama has never stated he would use the office of President to promote his religion and I haven't seen one bit of evidence he will.

BTW, your polls are always really skewed to extremes where I can't vote in them.

What poll option would you have me add, so you could cast your vote? It sounds like you have no problem with Obama's religion, though you do have a problem with Bush's religion, which is an option I already have available.

I'm not even going to waste my time reading the article given the source.

Obama doesn't say things like "God talks to me directly about what we should do in Iraq".

Originally Posted by cbwm

What poll option would you have me add, so you could cast your vote? It sounds like you have no problem with Obama's religion, though you do have a problem with Bush's religion, which is an option I already have available.

Option:
No, because some candidates can keep their politics and religion separate.


Bush has allowed his religion to dictate his policies with adverse effects IMO. Stem cells and abstinence only are two areas. I haven't seen any evidence where Obama will do the same.

Originally Posted by joder

Option:
Bush has allowed his religion to dictate his policies with adverse effects IMO. Stem cells and abstinence only are two areas. I haven't seen any evidence where Obama will do the same.

Yeah your right its better to have no morals at all like Obama.

Originally Posted by Cheshire_cat

Yeah your right its better to have no morals at all like Obama.

I don't think he has no morals and I don't think abstinence only or prohibiting many lines of stem cells from research is moral. In fact, just the opposite. I think the conservative christian position is immoral.

Originally Posted by Cheshire_cat

Yeah your right its better to have no morals at all like Obama.

So you think that every minute a 7 year old girl is forced to suffer unnecessarily because Idiot Bush is squeamish about stem cells, this is moral? George Bush has been the most immoral president in my lifetime - judged by behavior, not how many times he pretends to follow Jesus.

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

So you think that every minute a 7 year old girl is forced to suffer unnecessarily because Idiot Bush is squeamish about stem cells, this is moral? George Bush has been the most immoral president in my lifetime - judged by behavior, not how many times he pretends to follow Jesus.

I was talking more on the lines of abortion. I'm not sure how I feel about stem cells, from what I know I don't have a problem with it.

Any moral person doesn't have a problem with stem cells. The argument against them is that because a stem cell has the potential to turn into a zygot which has the potential to turn into a fetus which has the potential to develop into a fully developed human being, the moral rights of a undifferentiated stem cell are equal to those of an actual human being that's suffering terribly. So it's better to just let these people spend their lives in absolute pain than it is to allow science to try to find cures for them. Helping people with burns, or Parkinson's disease, according to Republicans in the White House and in Congress, is less important than protecting stem cells.

Originally Posted by joder

Option:
No, because some candidates can keep their politics and religion separate.


Bush has allowed his religion to dictate his policies with adverse effects IMO. Stem cells and abstinence only are two areas. I haven't seen any evidence where Obama will do the same.

So having a religious candidate like Obama, who may or may not govern by his religious views is ok so long as his religious views don't conflict with your personal views in any way you can currently predict. Again, I have an option on my Poll for your viewpoint.

Partial birth abortion is where I draw the line, Obama has said that he agrees with this and that is where he losses me as far as morals goes.

Originally Posted by Cheshire_cat

Yeah your right its better to have no morals at all like Obama.

How exactly does using your religion as an excuse for being an incredibly useless leader mean you have morals... I'm not religious, but I have morals.
I don't remember our prime minister using God as an excuse for his actions.
You can be religious and without morals, and vice versa, so replying to people posting about their concerns over George W. Bush using religion as a guiding force for his actions, stating that it's better to be a religious nut rather than someone that keeps their professional life and religion separate makes little sense.

Although it's not up to me to decide who will be the next American President (damnit, why did I get American Idol style stuff going through my head as I typed that!?), it'll be interesting to see what happens.
Obama seems to be doing well, but if Hillary is anything like Bill, there's a chance she may do something at least halfway decent were she to win (like pulling the country out of another *** load of debt caused by the Bush administration... It's like you people hate your country).
Either way, one of them could, assuming one of them wins, make history (I'm not going to point out why as it should be obvious).
My uncle is getting married to an American, and British news papers seem more interested in American politics than British news, so I doubt there's much chance of me getting away from this election (at least America has the chance to vote for a party that's not entirely corrupt, unlike Britain where every party is secretly working for Hitler or some other tyrant).

On the issue of stem cell research, it is possible to harvest stem cells without harming anyone, and without the whole part cow, part human cloning thing (I wonder if there's a big maze under the lab that does that... Minotaur!), so there's no reason to ban it, even if it's not a mass scale thing like it is in countries where it's not banned.
Harvesting from the placenta for example, harms nobody, and it's making use of something which would otherwise go to waste.
If your child becomes ill in the future and stem cells could help cure them, is it not a better idea to allow this (harvesting and storing cells from waste material) than to watch them suffer?
I definitely don't agree with the Vatican on this issue since they don't even know what they are on about 90% of the time...
It's a sin to tamper with the creations of God, and it's a sin to be overly wealthy, yet many of their followers have dogs and cats, which are nocturnal by nature, but which humans have bred to be largely diurnal, and I'm pretty sure the Vatican is a dirty great city that's not exactly poor.

Originally Posted by Cheshire_cat

Partial birth abortion is where I draw the line, Obama has said that he agrees with this and that is where he losses me as far as morals goes.

I agree with you in that I am against partial birth abortion. But that is just one part of the issue and that issue is not the main one I'm deciding on.

Originally Posted by cbwm

So having a religious candidate like Obama, who may or may not govern by his religious views is ok so long as his religious views don't conflict with your personal views in any way you can currently predict. Again, I have an option on my Poll for your viewpoint.

You are wrong again.

My understanding is that Josef Mengle made huge leaps in science by being able to experiment directly on humans. Perhaps we should legalize experimentation on those who would normally be sent to the electric chair/gas chamber.

Anyway, all this is off topic, especially the UK opinion piece on how inept Bush is'/was. As I recall, Tony Blair danced side by side without attending the same church. Tony Blair, Maggie Thatcher. Good Peps. Good patriots.

Originally Posted by joder

You are wrong again.

Ok

Originally Posted by cbwm

My understanding is that Josef Mengle made huge leaps in science by being able to experiment directly on humans. Perhaps we should legalize experimentation on those who would normally be sent to the electric chair/gas chamber.

I like that idea alot. I really think they should do that.