I don't think it is quite as literal as you are making it. You are not going to find yourself standing in an all white room when Jim Carey walks in and demands that you believe he is God. There is a lot more to life (and afterlife) than what we perceive in our lifetime. I think that what happens when you die is not so easily defined. The descriptions I have given and what has been given else where are the closest we can come to it because it is so far from what we comprehend. If you read my other posts you will see that I don't think you are going to hell just because you go through life not believing in God or Jesus or Bhudda or Zeus for that matter. I think it has a lot more to do with how you live your life, the choices that you make and the actions that you take.

Originally Posted by BamaStangGuy

So am I the only one that has a problem with believing or even for that matter following a God that would send someone to wherever they go if they don't believe in a God

They say ignorance of the law is no excuse. At least in the U.S. you commit a crime without knowing it, you go to jail all the same. For my own philosophy, I figure I can't waste time worrying about things I can't be sure of. If that lands me in hell, I'll try and make the best of it. I also don't see the point in trying to tell someone else who believes these things not to believe in them. At the end of the day, what difference does it make?

Originally Posted by cbwm

They say ignorance of the law is no excuse. At least in the U.S. you commit a crime without knowing it, you go to jail all the same. For my own philosophy, I figure I can't waste time worrying about things I can't be sure of. If that lands me in hell, I'll try and make the best of it. I also don't see the point in trying to tell someone else who believes these things not to believe in them. At the end of the day, what difference does it make?

That is true to an extent in the U.S.

It really depends on the crime and the punishment is far from eternal damnation Judges tend to have mercy for first time offenders of non violent crimes.

Originally Posted by KML9870

The teachings of Jesus are really not that hard to follow. My signature sums up a large majority of it. Be kind to people, care for people, don't judge someone else, help others, love human kind. Most of what Jesus taught is simply being a good person with a kind heart.

Some of his teachings, anyway. And I'm not trying to belittle Jesus or his followers here, by any means. With history as our guide, much of what Jesus told people is one of the finer examples of humanity available.

I was walking home from work with a falafel, when a homeless man asked me if I planned to eat it. I did - it was going to be my dinner, and I was going to enjoy it. But he looked a lot hungrier than I was, so I gave it to him. I spent a solid year doing volunteer work 50 to 60 hours a week ... for free. But I'm not a Christian by any stretch of the imagination.

Jesus said repeatedly that the only way into the kingdom of god was through him. That non believers would be cast into the fire like weeds in the field. He clearly had no patience for anyone who wouldn't listen to his teachings. I think he was generally a wise and benevolent person, from the stories attributed to him, but not the son of god ... I don't believe there is a god, other than in a literary sense.

"Then he will say to those on his left [goats], 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. (Matt 25:41)

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Rev 20:14-15)

But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matt 8:12)

There's an awful lot of talk from Jesus in the gospel about "weeping and gnashing of teeth." If the gospel is to be believed, Jesus clearly believed in hell as a real place where people who don't believe sincerely in him are doomed to spend eternity. A lot of churches don't make such a big deal out of hell anymore, but if Christianity is to be believed ... I think Christ would be better able to tell us about the afterlife than the church.

Originally Posted by ForrestCroce

Some of his teachings, anyway. And I'm not trying to belittle Jesus or his followers here, by any means. With history as our guide, much of what Jesus told people is one of the finer examples of humanity available.

I was walking home from work with a falafel, when a homeless man asked me if I planned to eat it. I did - it was going to be my dinner, and I was going to enjoy it. But he looked a lot hungrier than I was, so I gave it to him. I spent a solid year doing volunteer work 50 to 60 hours a week ... for free. But I'm not a Christian by any stretch of the imagination.

Jesus said repeatedly that the only way into the kingdom of god was through him. That non believers would be cast into the fire like weeds in the field. He clearly had no patience for anyone who wouldn't listen to his teachings. I think he was generally a wise and benevolent person, from the stories attributed to him, but not the son of god ... I don't believe there is a god, other than in a literary sense.

There's an awful lot of talk from Jesus in the gospel about "weeping and gnashing of teeth." If the gospel is to be believed, Jesus clearly believed in hell as a real place where people who don't believe sincerely in him are doomed to spend eternity. A lot of churches don't make such a big deal out of hell anymore, but if Christianity is to be believed ... I think Christ would be better able to tell us about the afterlife than the church.

Jesus was only a man, his existence is like that of ours, he just chose to live it trying to influence other people with what he thinks he knows. Now for you all correcting people about what they don't believe in or believe in, you don't have any right to be judging them at all, so what if we don't believe in religion, so what if we refuse to be scared of hell or heaven, you believe in what you believe in and don't try to correct other people because the only thing you have is faith, no proofs, nothing more. how pathetic...

Originally Posted by jabo

Jesus was only a man, his existence is like that of ours, he just chose to live it trying to influence other people with what he thinks he knows. Now for you all correcting people about what they don't believe in or believe in, you don't have any right to be judging them at all, so what if we don't believe in religion, so what if we refuse to be scared of hell or heaven, you believe in what you believe in and don't try to correct other people because the only thing you have is faith, no proofs, nothing more. how pathetic...

While I've thrown more JWs off my doorstep than I care to count, I would put forth the theory that the religious at least have an excuse for trying to convert you. They are doing it because:

a) They believe they are saving you from hell
or
b) They feel it will better your life
or
c) They feel spreading their faith is obligatory to keep them out of hell
or
d) They want you to wear a bomb vest to kill innocents
or
e) They are a greedy corrupt preacher who wants your donation dollars

I'm still scratching my head and trying to figure out what reason the atheists have to convert people to their cause.

Originally Posted by cbwm

While I've thrown more JWs off my doorstep than I care to count, I would put forth the theory that the religious at least have an excuse for trying to convert you. They are doing it because:

a) They believe they are saving you from hell
or
b) They feel it will better your life
or
c) They feel spreading their faith is obligatory to keep them out of hell
or
d) They want you to wear a bomb vest to kill innocents
or
e) They are a greedy corrupt preacher who wants your donation dollars

I'm still scratching my head and trying to figure out what reason the atheists have to convert people to their cause.

Me, I am not trying to convert anyone to anything, I just expressed my opinion on how pathetic religion could be, I am not saying that it is the correct idea or that it should be what people should think or believe in to. We have our different opinions because of our different experiences and partly because of where we live in...all this other people for me is saying that you should join because its the only way to be saved, but the truth is they are saving themselves. If they believe in that certain thing, keep it to themselves and don't freak people out.

Originally Posted by jabo

If they believe in that certain thing, keep it to themselves and don't freak people out.

So true. Like Democrats.

"isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"
douglas adams

Forrest, first I have to say that I have the up-most respect for someone who is looking for truth, which I believe you are; even if you don’t believe in God, for you still to study other religions is a good thing.

I wish I had the perfect answer for these kinds of questions, its not like politics where one can dispute something by going to get a graph or a chart, which is what makes belief systems hard. But, I will say this I don’t think anyone should follow Christ out of fear of going to hell, after all fear is just an emotion you can’t live a happy life off of emotions. And I think that is where so many Christians fail to reach people, they are to busy telling people what they should or should not be doing becasue they will go to hell. I don't think that is what being a Christian is about, and I have to believe (I really have to or I would not be a Christian) that there is more to Christ than just “not going to hell”.

Originally Posted by cbwm

d) They want you to wear a bomb vest to kill innocents

I'm still scratching my head and trying to figure out what reason the atheists have to convert people to their cause.

Probably a better one than D. What reason did you have for trying to convert people to the idea that drunk drivers shouldn't face jail or prison time?

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

What reason did you have for trying to convert people to the idea that drunk drivers shouldn't face jail or prison time?

Because most Americans with a license have done it at least once? Are they all criminals deserving of Prison? Suspension of privilege? Sure. Fines? Sure. Prison? Please, get a grip. This is far different than injuring someone while driving (dunk or otherwise). Maybe we should imprison contractors who fail to put street signs at the right locations, which later cause injury accidents. How bout mechanics who fail to properly fix cars, and later cause an accident? Is there civil liability? Sure. Is there criminal liability? Not likely, though it sounds as though you wish there were.

You know in the other conversation I was referring to the ones who killed 17,000 people by drunk driving in one year. Maybe we should pat them on the back and say, not bad, everyone drinks and drives.

Are you implying that one drunk driver killed 17,000 people? Or that George W. Bush killed someone, or even injured someone? I was under the impression the other thread was about whether Bush should be considered a criminal for his DUI conviction....

He was convicted. So he IS a criminal. So you think it's okay to be drunk and driving?

Now you are almost back on topic. Newbie seems to think Drunk Drivers are criminals who deserve time in our crowded prison system. What say you?

Originally Posted by cbwm

Because most Americans with a license have done it at least once? Are they all criminals deserving of Prison? Suspension of privilege? Sure. Fines? Sure. Prison? Please, get a grip. This is far different than injuring someone while driving (dunk or otherwise). Maybe we should imprison contractors who fail to put street signs at the right locations, which later cause injury accidents. How bout mechanics who fail to properly fix cars, and later cause an accident? Is there civil liability? Sure. Is there criminal liability? Not likely, though it sounds as though you wish there were.

So you're saying there's nothing wrong with learning to use a rocket launcher in a terrorist training cell in Afghanistan so long as you never use one against Americans. And also that it's fine to put on a blind fold and then shoot a gun out the window in the middle of a city so long as you're lucky enough to miss anyone. All kinds of criminal negligence should be encouraged with slap on the wrist penalties by your logic, so long as a person continues to beat the odds.

Not that it matters. If you're able to write the above with a straight face (and honestly I don't believe you are), that would be about as out of touch as saying we ought to bring back slavery. Putting other people's lives at risk because a person is too cheap to buy a cab or because their time is worth more than another person's legs is grossly immoral. And we're never going back to that as a civilized people.

So while you're on your crusade to make Americans less responsible, how are you going to criticize anybody else for being on their own?

I think there have to be consequences for irresponsible actions that are illegal. Giving them one night to sleep it off and maybe a short license suspension is not it.

Suspending a person's license is definitely appropriate. Driving on public roads is a privilege, not a right.

But, as we see, some people don't believe in personal responsibility.

Well John , why not let them drive on public roads when they can be in public office