across the atlantic, america is seen by many as the greedy, all-consuming power of the western world. all we see on TV is a nation obsessed with wealth and looks. the media paints a picture of a great nation and of the "american dream" which is open to all. and yet america has one of the worst health systems in the world, rascism is rife and the many that live in poverty have work several jobs on minimum wage, just to survive. if your not wealthy america doesn't care.
it sure is the land of the free.

Of course it is the land of the Free. The millions who want to be here are Free to apply for visas and residency. Those who don't like it, are free to voice their complaints, or run for office in an effort to change things. Did you know there are more Irish living in America than there are in Ireland? There is a lottery every year amongst the Irish for the gift of U.S. citizenship. Wonder why that is. Another valued U.S. freedom, anyone is welcome to leave if they don't like it here.

By the way, did you see David Beckham score his first goal in MLS last night? Comedy.

Originally Posted by robertjordan

across the atlantic, america is seen by many as the greedy, all-consuming power of the western world. all we see on TV is a nation obsessed with wealth and looks. the media paints a picture of a great nation and of the "american dream" which is open to all. and yet america has one of the worst health systems in the world, rascism is rife and the many that live in poverty have work several jobs on minimum wage, just to survive. if your not wealthy america doesn't care.
it sure is the land of the free.

At this moment we still have a good health care system, its called private. It means people that have a good head on their shoulders and does not need the government to tell them when and where to breath, and here is your government toilet to crap in, has great health care.

BTW – if you need to get your wisdom teeth taken out, how long do you have to wait? A few months? Lol. Yeah, other countries have much better health care than America.

One last things, all these people living in poverty in America like you claim, that is their choice. That is the great thing about America, If they don’t want to live in poverty they don’t have to. The problem is those kind of people don’t exactly have the American dream to be somebody they are perfectly content with living in the slums that liberals feed them.

its free in that sense but i'm mainly talking about the americans who live in complete poverty who are simply forgotten about. what can they do if they become ill?
there are 50million irish descendants living in america ( and less than 5million here in ireland) but i think they consider themselves american and not irish.
also is david beckham finally becoming a celebrity over there?

Originally Posted by robertjordan

its free in that sense but i'm mainly talking about the americans who live in complete poverty who are simply forgotten about. what can they do if they become ill?
there are 50million irish descendants living in america ( and less than 5million here in ireland) but i think they consider themselves american and not irish.
also is david beckham finally becoming a celebrity over there?

Last time I checked, the Irish in America hang onto their heritage fairly fiercely. You might be surprised about how many first generation Irish there are living in America today. I don't have the specific number but I'd say its over a million, maybe over two million. What does that say about the desirability of the U.S. to the Irish as a whole?

Yeh, once MLS picks up viewership here, it will become popular, and with it, David Beckham in America. Once it picks up an audience, you will see MLB type cash flow into the sport from America and likely see a migration of the best foreign players to the U.S., just like Hockey.

they have to live in poverty they dont have any choice but to. thats the very nature of living in poverty- you dont have choices

Originally Posted by robertjordan

they have to live in poverty they dont have any choice but to. thats the very nature of living in poverty- you dont have choices

Getting a job isn't an option? Working hard isn't an option?

the discussion is about america not ireland and we do have serious problems in certain areas of the country

"The Law, in it's majestic equality, forbids the Rich as well as the Poor to sleep under the bridges, beg in the street, and to steal bread."

Basic translation- This is a world of opportunity, as long as you are wealthy, or in service to the County or Government, the rest can rot. And if you think this is just Bull, you really are disillusioned.

Originally Posted by mork29

Getting a job isn't an option? Working hard isn't an option?

but how does one get a job without any qualifications?

Originally Posted by Capt Quirk

"The Law, in it's majestic equality, forbids the Rich as well as the Poor to sleep under the bridges, beg in the street, and to steal bread."

Basic translation- This is a world of opportunity, as long as you are wealthy, or in service to the County or Government, the rest can rot. And if you think this is just Bull, you really are disillusioned.

capt quirk- the voice of reason

Originally Posted by EMH

the discussion is about america not ireland and we do have serious problems in certain areas of the country

Why not talk about Ireland, or Mexico, or India, or anywhere else on the planet. You guys talk like America is the only country that has issues with poverty. The point I was making is that, while calling the U.S. a sh*thole, most of your countrymen find our sh*thole preferable to your sh*thole.

Edit: I was going to go look up some employment, poverty, and healthcare statistics for Ireland, but I decided not to, as the migration numbers speak louder than any of these.

If you're willing to work hard, then you have all of the qualification you need for thousands of jobs. If you are in some way disabled, there are special programs for helping you with job placement. Many companies willingly higher people with disabilities for both the PR aspect of it, and also to help stave off lawsuits. If you are capable of breathing you can get a job. If you are capable of lifting heavy things off of the ground, then you qualify for thousands of high paying jobs.

The vast majority of the people who are jobless are simply not trying to get jobs.

If you really want to start comparing the US to Europe, then let's look at unemployment rates. In the US, we're currently at about 5%, which is the highest it has been in a long time. The fact of the matter is, in the US, geting a job is not hard. Let's compare to the supposedly better European Union:
Germany: 9.10
France: 7.5
Italy: 6.7
UK: 5.4
EU Average: 8.5

If you want to see a HUGE list of jobs that don't require skills, look no further than craigslist:
http://seattle.craigslist.org/csr/
http://seattle.craigslist.org/lab/
http://seattle.craigslist.org/fbh/

Just looking in those Seattle listings, I see dozens of jobs that have been posted JUST TODAY that require little to no skill whatsoever. Considering we're facing a "recesion", the job listing is probably a lot smaller than normal. If somebody is willing to work like the rest of us, then they can get by just fine. If they're not willing to work, then yes, I don't care about them. They can stay poor, hungry, and homeless for all I care. When people who are willing to work hard can't make ends meet, then I'll start to care.

What Keith is saying is the point I have been trying to make. These guys that you say live poverty are live in it for one reason, choice. In American there is no one to blame but yourself, if you don’t have a job, or healthcare.

how about, a single mother with children living in one of the many ghettos of america. even with 3 jobs i doubt she could even make ends meet let alone aford health insurance for herself and her children.
Btw have you seen michael moore's film on the american health system?

Originally Posted by Cheshire_cat

What Keith is saying is the point I have been trying to make. These guys that you say live poverty are live in it for one reason, choice. In American there is no one to blame but yourself, if you don’t have a job, or healthcare.

Sorry but I disagree. America's real dream at the moment is privatisation of everything in society. Americans (well the ones I've been speaking to) all seem to hate the idea of government run healthcare (why?!) and also love the idea of private education. I don't really understand why businesses are better suited to providing these important, life-changing facilities when their primary interest is money, not well-being.

Then there's crime and gang culture which is sadly spreading from the USA along with the rest of the American culture that we are fed every day on TV in the UK.

I do have a lot of issues with America and it's politics as you can see

Originally Posted by whym

America's real dream at the moment is privatisation of everything in society. Americans (well the ones I've been speaking to) all seem to hate the idea of government run healthcare (why?!) and also love the idea of private education. I don't really understand why businesses are better suited to providing these important, life-changing facilities when their primary interest is money, not well-being.

You already gave the reason why the business will try hard. They want to make money! As long as their are lots of options in the industry, they'll have to compete with each other. That means they'll have to offer the best service possible at the lowest cost. To see what will happen to a socialized medical system, just look at the post office. Even though they get HUGE amounts of advantages over the private sector (both in the form of laws and money), UPS and FedEx can still compete with them. If the private companies aren't run efficiently, then they go belly up. However, if the government version is run poorly, it's fixed with more and more tax dollars.

Originally Posted by whym

Then there's crime and gang culture which is sadly spreading from the USA along with the rest of the American culture that we are fed every day on TV in the UK.

Violent crimes have been on the decline in America since the early 90s. I'm talking better and better numbers every year for the past decade. However, I'll back up what I say with facts, because blindly stating something as true (like you did) is simply to easy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States
http://www.whitehouse.gov/fsbr/crime.html
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/viort.htm
As far as "gang culture"? Well, I don't really care how people express themselves culturally, as long as they're not hurting others. Looking at those statistics, American's are getting better and better. I really don't care if soembody listens to a song about killing people, watches a movie about killing people, or play a video game in which you kill people. Just don't actually do those things.

The only thing that went up at all was drug arrests. I'm sure most of those were for pot, and arresting people for pot is just idiotic. I think it is every American's right to hurt themselves all they want.

Originally Posted by whym

I do have a lot of issues with America and it's politics as you can see

That's fine, just make sure you decide based on fact instead of what the liberal news, that guy on the street corner, and the little bits of anecdotal evidence you might have are.

Originally Posted by robertjordan

how about, a single mother with children living in one of the many ghettos of america. even with 3 jobs i doubt she could even make ends meet let alone aford health insurance for herself and her children.
Btw have you seen michael moore's film on the american health system?

Welfare. Medicare. And about every tax break you can get. Not to mention she is living with the consequences of her own stupidity. If you can’t afford kids, there is a very easy and logical solution.

No I have not seen his movie; I have a funny thing about watching someone twisting truths so he can make a point that is not there.

For all you guys talking about how bad America is with our health system, I strongly suggest you read this.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/05/us/politics/05woman.html?_r=1&ei=5090&en=7824b4f8ea3b363d&ex=1 365134400&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=p rint&oref=slogin

Just some more lies that liberals want to spoon feed you guys.

i read the article. that was ONE isolated case where it turned out that she had insurance. that was a really feeble attempt to prove your point.
again i'd advise those healthcare promoters to watch "sicko", its a truly shocking insight on the health system. no wonder you guys dont like michael moore for highlighting your shambolic health system.

Originally Posted by robertjordan

i read the article. that was ONE isolated case where it turned out that she had insurance. that was a really feeble attempt to prove your point.
again i'd advise those healthcare promoters to watch "sicko", its a truly shocking insight on the health system. no wonder you guys dont like michael moore for highlighting your shambolic health system.

Wow. Quoting Michael Moore's films as some statement of fact. The same film that espoused the greatness of things in Cuba, while people every day are risking their lives to get out from under that particular system of government. There is something humorous about it. Even the radical left in America tend to distance themselves from the laughing fat man, and view him as some kind of loon.

It brings me back to one of my favorite topics. Why do Americans export idiocy? You are sitting there in Ireland, minding your own business, and some American idiot sells you on the idea that America has the worst health care system on the planet, just so he can line his pockets with your dollars. And you buy it.

The same idiot puts together a propaganda conspiracy theory movie about 9-11, and calls it a documentary, so the viewing audience can try and stomach it as fact. Again, the viewing audience eats it up, and Michael Moore gets fatter still. He obviously doesn't care about promoting a negative image of the U.S. abroad, and deepening the divide at home, so long as you keep on sending your money. If it weren't so damaging to a country I love, I would find it respectable, in the same sense I find Al Gore selling Global Warming respectable.

You have CNNI, an Atlanta based firm filled which regularly practices yellow journalism with an Anti-U.S. slant and exports it around the planet without competition. For those wondering why the image of the U.S. abroad is lower than ever(still very much loved, by the way), they need look no further than the media we export. The few very rich media tycoons who you buy it from would like to take this opportunity to thank you for every penny, and for believing.

So you know, the health care offered in the U.S. is amongst the best in the world. Malpractice litigation has ensured it is so, and at the same time driven the costs through the roof. There is a reason many Canadians cross the border into the U.S. to get their cancer treated by a professional before they die at the hands of the socialist medical system.

Regarding the many slums in America, the Irish have little room to talk. You know full well there are many parts of Dublin and Belfast you would not walk alone at night. Now take your island, shrink it from 85,000 km2 to only 13,000 km2, and add 6 million people to the 4 million you have, make sure they are from all parts of the world, many of whom arrived there with little more than the shirts on their backs, and then start talk to me about the "slums" of America. In the meantime, maybe you would do better to get a factual basis for your opinions, like maybe visiting the country.