I am a man, who does not wish to make enemies by speaking his mind. Granted, so many people are so very closed minded and I will without a doubt get some.

When people stop believing that there is a God watching over them and when people start believing that we are not being protected by anything other than sheer luck and common disinterest throughout the galaxy is when the Human race can begin to evolve again, less through physical manifestation, and more through tought and ideas. It's clear we've gone through that evolution and anyone would be a fool to argue otherwise. The human race could evolve into gods themselves were it not for the notion that we are the slaves of a "benevolent" supreme being, bending our wills to his.

This is the tricky part... The existence of God or a god is completely irrelevant. That shouldn't even be an argument. It's a time waster...because nobody ever wins and nobody is ever right. The best course of action anyone can take is to deny the existence of God or a god in favour of something that does have irrefutable proof of exisisting. The Human Race.

The potential of humans is vast, anyone who would say we're war mongering, greedy and sinful people would just call it human nature. It's not, well... it is, but it doesn't have to be. It never should have been. Simply because religion is a factor of debate in this world is one reason we're war mongers and sinful hipocrites. The other MAJOR reason we are the way we are is because of money and the free market.

God doesn't exist because any god that claimed to love his creation would have saved us from ourselves long ago. If he doesn't want to interfere in our development, then what's the point of him at all?

Deny all gods. They are doorways to a hall that will lead you in circles for the rest of your life. Belief in gods do not grant you a higher wisdom into the meaning of life. I can tell you what does though.

The Meaning of Life is for everyone to better themselves with knowledge and enlightenment until humans can reach the stars, until humans can create the stars, until humans become gods. It will start with the abolition of all religion, all currency, and the free market.

We'd be looking a true Renaissance.

Tom Cruise, be a man and post your name. Don't Scientology have it's own forum?

I think you misunderstand me. I was speaking poetically about humans being gods.

It's simply that ALL religion and concept of trade and currency is halting our full potential from being realised.

Atheism is the way of the future. Religion is for selfish people.

I don't agree with everything you wrote.

What your describing is what is portrayed in Star Trek. I am not making fun of what you are saying or calling it fiction. Some science fiction is very good social commentary. What your saying would be a lofty goal. I don't think the abandonment of capitalism or religion is achievable in anything close to the near future. Technology would have to advance way beyond what we currently have. If humanity doesn't destroy itself, maybe in several hundred years.

Originally Posted by TheTrueHuman

I think you misunderstand me. I was speaking poetically about humans being gods.

It's simply that ALL religion and concept of trade and currency is halting our full potential from being realised.

Atheism is the way of the future. Religion is for selfish people.

Atheism is also some form of belief and so is religion, or a culture or something... I don't really see the connection of religion with the concept of trade and currency. I honestly don't believe in religion but I don't agree to most of your statement... I don't think that anyone does...

Do state whats your purpose with this statement of yours... Are you trying to change our minds and believe in what your believing? mmmm, so whats not so selfish with that?

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. If I did, that'd be great, but it's not my goal.

When everybody is an atheist nobody is going to go around saying "I don't believe in God." Why would they? It would render the existence of religion into a non-factor of human life. Somebody created it and time will end it.

and

Maybe there isn't a connection between religion and currency, but maybe there is. Maybe they're two things that people get killed over the most.


Also, somebody spotted this from being from Star Trek... nice. There is some Bill Hicks in there as well... less obvious.

Originally Posted by TheTrueHuman

When everybody is an atheist nobody is going to go around saying "I don't believe in God." Why would they? It would render the existence of religion into a non-factor of human life. Somebody created it and time will end it.

Yeah, but the trick is to get everyone to be an Atheist first which requires an active recruitment process, not unlike religious conversion. It seems during the dark ages, the Christians were muttering a very similar mantra. A subsection of Islam also thinks that way today.

Here is the worst part. What if you are wrong and there turns out to be a god after all?

Originally Posted by cbwm

Here is the worst part. What if you are wrong and there turns out to be a god after all?

It hasn't revealed itself in the 12 billion years or so of the universe's existence. Are we supposed to hold our breaths and wait?

What if he's wrong and there's a God, one who loves his children, and doesn't appreciate people threatening each other on his behalf?

Originally Posted by joder

It hasn't revealed itself in the 12 billion years or so of the universe's existence. Are we supposed to hold our breaths and wait?

Has not revealed himself to you. ...yet.

Phil, is your god supposed to reveal some real evidence? A fuzzy feeling? Some dream to make someone say wow?

What if there turns out to be a god and it turns out it's not Jesus but he thinks like Jesus that those who don't worship him are against him?

If there is some god who keeps himself hidden and has never revealed himself, maybe he likes honesty and doesn't mind if people choose facts over fear or fantasy.

you sound like you agree with the theories of hegal or marx. are you promoting some kind of neo-comunism? i fully agree with you that religion slows us down but what you fail to see is that atheism slows us down also. because, for an atheist to believe that there is no god, he must have had to consider the prospect that god existed. i believe we must not preoccupy ourselves with god in ANY way. sadly, the world will always be a very capitalist one, the world you speak of is just not plausible.

Originally Posted by joder

Phil, is your god supposed to reveal some real evidence? A fuzzy feeling? Some dream to make someone say wow?

I would never base my whole life and beliefs on a fuzzy feeling or dream, but it is the nature of men to try and process life; which is an on-going struggle for my part. I am constantly questioning things trying to find the "deeper truth" so to speak. And I arrived where I am not just because of studies, but things I have seen, people I have talked to, and some feelings.

What if there turns out to be a god and it turns out it's not Jesus but he thinks like Jesus that those who don't worship him are against him?

I would be a lier if I said I never thought about this or questioned my faith. I have thought many times about "what if I were born into a Muslim family?" "would I not believe as strongly about my Muslim faith as I really do about my Christian faith? And how would I know what I believed was wrong. and I guess I really don't have a good answer for that one, or at least not one that would bring satisfaction.

If there is some god who keeps himself hidden and has never revealed himself, maybe he likes honesty and doesn't mind if people choose facts over fear or fantasy.[/quote]

I'm not sure what you were asking here or saying.

Originally Posted by robertjordan

you sound like you agree with the theories of hegal or marx. are you promoting some kind of neo-comunism? i fully agree with you that religion slows us down but what you fail to see is that atheism slows us down also. because, for an atheist to believe that there is no god, he must have had to consider the prospect that god existed. i believe we must not preoccupy ourselves with god in ANY way. sadly, the world will always be a very capitalist one, the world you speak of is just not plausible.

And you think one that no one considers that there is a god is plausible?

Originally Posted by Cheshire_cat

I would be a lier if I said I never thought about this or questioned my faith. I have thought many times about "what if I were born into a Muslim family?" "would I not believe as strongly about my Muslim faith as I really do about my Christian faith? And how would I know what I believed was wrong. and I guess I really don't have a good answer for that one, or at least not one that would bring satisfaction.

I appreciate your honesty Phil. I have no problem with John, Kandi, Tim, or your faith. All of you don't push it on other people and I am not trying to push my lack of belief in a god on you.

What do you think of, for example, a Muslim or an an example of someone I know you don't agree with Osama bin-Laden. Would he be better than an atheist in your view? Does your god value an honest atheist over a religious person who says they believe out of fear or just because they are supposed to or someone like David Koresh?

Originally Posted by joder

It hasn't revealed itself in the 12 billion years or so of the universe's existence. Are we supposed to hold our breaths and wait?

Wait - Yes. Hold Breath - No. In all the time of mans existence, they haven't disproved God. Should we hold our breath and wait for that as atheists?

Originally Posted by cbwm

Wait - Yes. Hold Breath - No. In all the time of mans existence, they haven't disproved God. Should we hold our breath and wait for that as atheists?

That's bass ackwards logic. It is up to a theist to prove their claim. Are you referring to a generic god, Yahweh, Jesus, Allah, Zeus, Krishna, or some other one? Even the monotheistic gods are not the same.

Originally Posted by joder

That's bass ackwards logic. It is up to a theist to prove their claim.

Is there some rule book of who needs to prove what that you are quoting from? They only person who needs to prove nothing is the person who asserts nothing, also known as the agnostics.

Originally Posted by cbwm

Is there some rule book of who needs to prove what that you are quoting from? They only person who needs to prove nothing is the person who asserts nothing, also known as the agnostics.

So your saying there is no evidence for some type of god? According to your backwards view, which god is someone supposed to show evidence against? You just say god but there is no "god" there are thousands of them.

There is a teapot that orbits the sun just outside the orbit of pluto. If you don't believe it then disprove it.

Originally Posted by joder

There is a teapot that orbits the sun just outside the orbit of pluto. If you don't believe it then disprove it.

I can choose not to believe it without having to disprove it, just as you can choose to believe it without having to prove it. If you want to debate me about it, you will have to present every bit as much proof as I would. In the case of "God" in the general sense, there is far more proof of his existence than there is against it.