Lucky to have had some Chicago residents visiting the UK last week. Very excited by the phenomena that is Obama. A new spirit of hope is flourishing for many US citizens, I like this wave of hope, maybe it will ripple through all societies and enable reconcilliation and realistic ways of managing a global crisis.
Catelin

Camelot Returns! I look forward to the return of American defeat abroad (Vietnam, Bay of Pigs) and bringing our planet to the brink of thermonuclear destruction (Cuban Missile Crisis). It makes me wonder what type of race riots there would be in America if President Obama was assassinated like JFK.

Yep, cant deny those events but he brought hope to many, nationally and internationally and is remembered by many generations. As is King, Gandhi, and we still have Mandela.

Originally Posted by Catelin

Yep, cant deny those events.

Yeah... you can deny his entire assertion .

Originally Posted by highanddry

Yeah... you can deny his entire assertion .

You could, but it would be like denying the existence of the Sun.

I've always felt that George W. Bush will be remembered as one of the great peacemakers of our time, along side Mandela, King, or Ghandi. Maybe the greatest.

Originally Posted by cbwm

I've always felt that George W. Bush will be remembered as one of the great peacemakers of our time, along side Mandela, King, or Ghandi. Maybe the greatest.

cbwm even this made me laugh.

Originally Posted by cbwm

I look forward to the return of American defeat abroad

George W Bush already brought the return of American defeat at home and abroad. Why do conservatives insist on buring their head in the sand like ostriches and living in the past?

Originally Posted by cbwm

I've always felt that George W. Bush will be remembered as one of the great peacemakers of our time, along side Mandela, King, or Ghandi. Maybe the greatest.

Oh come now, you can troll better than that!

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

George W Bush already brought the return of American defeat at home and abroad. Why do conservatives insist on buring their head in the sand like ostriches and living in the past?

Right on.

I'd like to see us fight for our "freedom" in other places besides foreign countries.. Like deep sea, online and maybe other planets.

Originally Posted by cbwm

You could, but it would be like denying the existence of the Sun.

I've always felt that George W. Bush will be remembered as one of the great peacemakers of our time, along side Mandela, King, or Ghandi. Maybe the greatest.

Shurely shom mistake here or is Mr W's capacity for abstract thought reached epidemic proprtions ( I believe fish and human beings can coexist peacefully)
I consider Mr Obama to have a clarity and a calmness that I recall seeing as a young person in JFK. Its a comparison seen by others and was even made on the BBC this evening. The world needs individuals who have courage and clarity, I hope he is elected and I hope he lives to a ripe old age.

Originally Posted by highanddry

Right on.

I'd like to see us fight for our "freedom" in other places besides foreign countries.. Like deep sea, online and maybe other planets.

George doesn't fight for freedom but freedumb.

Obama. What issues does he stand for this week. Pro or anti he wants your vote.

Hope,Change,hope,change,Hope,Change,hope,change,Ho pe,Change,hope,change,
Hope,Change,hope,change,Hope,Change,hope,change,Ho pe,Change,hope,change,
Hope,Change,hope,change,

Originally Posted by homebizseo

Obama. What issues does he stand for this week. Pro or anti he wants your vote.

Hope,Change,hope,change,Hope,Change,hope,change,Ho pe,Change,hope,change,
Hope,Change,hope,change,Hope,Change,hope,change,Ho pe,Change,hope,change,
Hope,Change,hope,change,

Apparently, the reason you hear people mindlessly chanting his mantra is because George Lucas has indicated it is obvious Obama is a Jedi Knight. A strange claim at first, but now there is actually video footage to prove it:

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_poli...boomerang.html

Interestingly, apparently George W. Bush is also a Jedi Knight, but one not so honed in his Jedi skills.

http://www.jibjab.com/view/88415#login_popup

It seems there is a general consensus, possibly including Dick himself, that Dick Cheney is actually Darth Vader. Not sure where McCain fits into the whole mess with the "Straight talk express".

Originally Posted by cbwm

Interestingly, apparently George W. Bush is also a Jedi Knight, but one not so honed in his Jedi skills.

By this analogy, George W Bush would be the emperor who unburdened the galaxy of its civil rights and launched an endless war, getting permission from the senate by lies and deceit.

Blackwater would be the army fueling the Attack of the Clones.

(Of course, if IQ were the only measure, GWB would be Jar Jar Binks.)

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

By this analogy, George W Bush would be the emperor who unburdened the galaxy of its civil rights and launched an endless war, getting permission from the senate by lies and deceit.

Blackwater would be the army fueling the Attack of the Clones.

(Of course, if IQ were the only measure, GWB would be Jar Jar Binks.)

Bitter Much?

The GHWB as an emperor thing scares me. Some conservative 'pro-family' think-tank in Washington came out with a report recently stating they believe the US would be best off if Bush were named 'President for Life' and we did away with the whole pesky democracy thing.

Originally Posted by ECSuite_Russell

The GHWB as an emperor thing scares me. Some conservative 'pro-family' think-tank in Washington came out with a report recently stating they believe the US would be best off if Bush were named 'President for Life' and we did away with the whole pesky democracy thing.

Given the choice of Obama, McCain or Bush, Dubya shines like pearls amongst swine. I don't know about president for life though. How about president until the Democrats or Republicans can field a better candidate?

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

By this analogy, George W Bush would be the emperor who unburdened the galaxy of its civil rights and launched an endless war, getting permission from the senate by lies and deceit.

Blackwater would be the army fueling the Attack of the Clones.

(Of course, if IQ were the only measure, GWB would be Jar Jar Binks.)

Absolutely superb!

I'm elated that Obama's running. I'm ecstatic that he's slaughtering McCain as well.

The comment about Repubs with their head in the sand is very apropos. Had they taken it out of their booties (er, sand) long enough to realize that their policies have failed in every possible regard and that their only savior would be admitting they were wrong and advertising a new platform and then going into Congress and using their skills at tweaking it to get things accomplished they may have won this next election, but "out of sight, out of mind", right? When one does not face oneself, one becomes one's own destroyer.

What is totally laughable is the Republicans' assertion that McCain isn't a very good candidate. Even though he won their primaries. It's just another way that the Republicans are cutting off their noses to spite their face.

But I'd like to thank them, CBWM, as without such blatant, pervasive incompetence in managing our country and their own aspirations to maintain the Congress and the Presidency, the Republicans might have won.

Please keep knocking McCain.

I'll predict (and CBWM before you go criticizing that, please refer to your other post where all of your predictions were wrong) that Obama is going to go down in history as one of our greatest presidents. The irony, of course, is that The 43rd will go down as one of the worst.

Republicans get ready for a lesson: Negotiating with a gun in your hands is an oxymoron, not diplomacy. Obama will show you that negotiating in good faith with the backbone to step up if necessary can achieve great goals.

"But," they have said, "the 'surge' worked!" All the time neglecting the fact that if you throw enough force at something you can get just about anything you want and the only consequences are bad feelings toward you and general destruction. Diplomacy and trying to work out issues is a far preferable solution than killing until the killing stops.

I read a news story about a CIA or FBI agent who interviewed Saddam before he was executed. The agent had asked why Saddam had let everyone think he had WMDs. The response? He didn't want Iran to think they could invade Iraq. Ironic isn't it?

BTW: Don't take that as an endorsement of Saddam. He was executed and ought to have been executed, but even evil people can sometimes be right -- evaluate the argument not the messenger.

Truly sad thing is that The 43rd is guilty of a comparable number of cold-blooded murders as was Saddam. Will he be tried? I hope I live to see the day. Laughed my booty off, in fact, when I read that Murderer Rumsfeld had to flee France to evade arrest for war crimes. Too classic. If karma has anything to do with it, these murderers will have an up-close-and-personal rendition experience of their own. Will they still support torture then?

In short (ha ha), the fact of the matter is that The 43rd and McCain both have a great disdain for the constitution. Pickup a copy of The Federalist Papers and the Anti-Federalist papers. Read them and then read the news. Finally, ask yourself which arguments are being profferred by today's political parties. It will open your eyes in a way you've never had them open before.

CBWM, you may begin the rhetoric...

EDIT: Oh, and fallacies, of course (wouldn't want to deny you those)

Originally Posted by JeremyMiller

CBWM, you may begin the rhetoric...

Thank you for my queue! I enjoyed reading your editorial. While every bit as outrageous as Learning Newbies posts, the calm and collected tone gives the reader an unparalleled feeling of truthiness without the need for those pesky references to actual fact. For instance:

Originally Posted by JeremyMiller

I'm ecstatic that he's slaughtering McCain as well.

Reality. Truth be told, the polls are trending in favor of McCain, since those nasty "outliar" polls by LA Times and Newsweek showing a non-existent 14 point lead for Obama have aged out of the average without having had the their intended effect. The true comedy was watching CNN put together a segment on "Obama gets his bump" which was based entirely on one of those bogus polls. Newsweek makes it up, CNN tries to make it true.

Originally Posted by JeremyMiller

What is totally laughable is the Republicans' assertion that McCain isn't a very good candidate. Even though he won their primaries. It's just another way that the Republicans are cutting off their noses to spite their face.
...
Please keep knocking McCain.

Not sure the logic of that entire section, so any statement I make will likely not make a very good response. I suppose I'll leave it at, just because a candidate wins a party nomination does not make him/her a good candidate. Obama illustrates that point rather well. Had your fine Democrats nominated Hilary, we would not be looking at a near statistical dead heat, but rather at a huge lead for the Dems. In the mean time, I'm happy to oblige. I will keep knocking McCain.

Originally Posted by JeremyMiller

I'll predict (and CBWM before you go criticizing that, please refer to your other post where all of your predictions were wrong) that Obama is going to go down in history as one of our greatest presidents. The irony, of course, is that The 43rd will go down as one of the worst.

The problem with predictions in politics is that some large part of those predictions is made up of hoping and wishing. True for you, true for me. Also, as is the case with most people, nobody gets them all right. Predicting that Obama, an inexperienced unknown, is going to go down as one of our greatest presidents is a bit like picking the third horse in the sixth race without knowing anything about the horse.

Originally Posted by JeremyMiller

Republicans get ready for a lesson: Negotiating with a gun in your hands is an oxymoron, not diplomacy. Obama will show you that negotiating in good faith with the backbone to step up if necessary can achieve great goals.

Call it what you like. Its effective. Negotiating from a position of weakness does not achieve great goals very often. Maybe he can show us how to get around that gravity thingy too.

Originally Posted by JeremyMiller

"But," they have said, "the 'surge' worked!" All the time neglecting the fact that if you throw enough force at something you can get just about anything you want and the only consequences are bad feelings toward you and general destruction. Diplomacy and trying to work out issues is a far preferable solution than killing until the killing stops.

Now here I agree with you. What we need to do is disarm our police force. Throwing force at the problem is not the answer. We need to talk and negotiate with armed robbers, kidnappers, etc. They are people too!

Originally Posted by JeremyMiller

Truly sad thing is that The 43rd is guilty of a comparable number of cold-blooded murders as was Saddam. Will he be tried? I hope I live to see the day.

/cough facts?

Originally Posted by JeremyMiller

Laughed my booty off, in fact, when I read that Murder Rumsfeld had to flee France to evade arrest for war crimes. Too classic. If karma has anything to do with it, these murders will have an up-close-and-personal rendition experience of their own. Will they still support torture then?

It would be just like France to torture people to get confessions in war-crimes cases.

Anyway, as I said, I enjoyed the editorial. I also found the one fact you offered which can be verified:

Originally Posted by JeremyMiller

"the 'surge' worked!"

Let us continue...


RealClearPolitics: Electoral College: Obama 255, McCain 163, 120 Toss Ups. Facts. You chose to look at overall voter preferences -- perhaps because that's less relevant?

Regarding predictions: Mine was not based on hoping and wishing, but on what I perceive to be Obama's strengths. I saw an interesting video on MoveOn (sure, impeach the speaker) which listed a number of the "inexperienced" assertions and then pointed out the man they said the same things of a few years back -- Lincoln ( see http://www.obamain30seconds.org/pc/i...tml?ad_id=1490 ). Experience isn't the only factor relevant to this conversation. Perhaps having learned a bit more from life about how to treat people and lead with greater integrity is what one really needs (now, that, I'll announce is an over-simplification, but I had to give you fodder, right?)

America does not negotiate from a position of weakness. Negotiation is not equal to capitulation. Negotiation isn't appeasement. Negotiation is both sides trying to come to an agreement that both sides can live with.

Regarding the argument ad absurdum (i.e. police negotiating): In fact, we do negotiate. Our goal there is to save lives (namely hostages and that of the offender so that they can be properly prosecuted). Object?

Regarding Death Data:

  Iraq Under The 43Rd'S Control: 
      US:     4,125 ( http://icasualties.org/oif/ )
  Allies:       314 ( http://icasualties.org/oif/ )
  Iraqis:   733,158 ( http://www.opinion.co.uk/Newsroom_details.aspx?NewsId=78 
                      -- using their smallest number [the max was 1,446,063])
   Total:   737,597

  Iraq Under Saddam's Control:
  Iraqis:   600,000 ( http://wais.stanford.edu/Iraq/iraq_deathsundersaddamhussein42503.html )

Problem With Data: I just did a quick search which was not very comprehensive. It is not possible to accurately account for all of these numbers (as is noted on some of those sites).

Regarding France: Um, and what about the reign of The 43rd? Torture? Well, that's in the eye of the ... victim? ... victimizer? ... Geneva?