I just got through watching a peice on CNN-International which left me both laughing and a bit p*ssed off. The female Hong Kong based anchor(British) was interviewing some pundit or other, who spoke for the broader European view on Sarah Palin. I don't have the transcript but i'll do my best at quoting what she said,

"Europe is like a prize fighter that has just been punched and cant believe the punch landed. Here you have this creature, and I don't mean that to be as disrespectful as it sounds, but you have this creature who likes guns and killing animals and has a variety of other beliefs as well which are simply not European values and they cant figure out how it is that this creature has so endangered Obamas chances.

We've been and felt frozen while watching Russia invade Georgia and the problems in Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan and were anxiously anticipating Obama's election which we felt sure would get things moving and bring resolution to so many of these problems. Now there are questions about his election and the community cant really believe that we may be in for more of the same"

In one quote she made it painfully obvious how culturally different Europe is from the U.S.. While I can sympathize that a weak U.S. economy has amplified effects abroad, and that U.S. foreign policy sometimes obligates or places pressure on it's allies, the fact is the election of the U.S. president is a U.S. affair and the decision is made by U.S. Citizens and only U.S. Citizens. The last time Europe tried to inject itself into a U.S. election was in 2004 when the UK Guardian had it's subscribers call Ohio voters to urge them to vote for the traitor John Kerry. The result was the opposite of their intent.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3981823.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004...tions2004.usa2

The same happened when Russell Brand went on the MTV VMAs and encouraged viewers to vote Obama. 70% of their viewership, which is probably 80% Obama supporters due to their age demographic, rejected Brand's comments as offensive and unwanted.

My point is, its fairly consistently true that foreign opinions played in the U.S. almost always create more votes in the opposite direction. Cuba and Venezuela's endorsement of Obama are two more examples. Imagine if the U.S. had been seen in the French media pulling for Nicolas Sarkozi because he is pro-US. He would likely have not been elected.

The first time I can recall the media pushing the concept of non-US folks desiring to have a say in US elections was in 2004, though it is out in full force this election cycle. What say you? If you are American, how do you feel about the idea of having foreigners vote or apply pressure in U.S. elections? How do the complaints about cultural differences/simularities of our presidential candidates play out in your head? Should we be seeking European/Foreign cultural approval and alignment(I'd be alright with adopting Octoberfest across the U.S.)?

If you are not American, how do you feel about it? Would you be willing to pay U.S. taxes and send your youth off to fight and die in foreign wars at the command of the U.S. president in exchange for a say in the election? Do we need to create a new stronger version of the U.N. where we truly elect a world leader of sorts?

I long for the days of a one world government..

I just wish we would get off our butts and start annexing European countries as non-voting territories and get it over with..

Yeah, but let's finally just take over the Western Hemisphere first and make it clear that the Monroe Doctrine wasn't just spin.

BTW, Palin stole the conservative chicks in power idea from Maggie Thatcher.

tim

Originally Posted by cbwm

If you are not American, how do you feel about it? Would you be willing to pay U.S. taxes and send your youth off to fight and die in foreign wars at the command of the U.S. president in exchange for a say in the election? Do we need to create a new stronger version of the U.N. where we truly elect a world leader of sorts?

With our spineless leaders we get to do US bidding without the advantage of having a vote.

I am American and I think foreigners' opinions and influence are a net positive for the US. Considering how isolated and myopic the US public is, if we didn't have foreigners to inject a sense of global awareness we'd go downhill even faster than we already are.

Meh, I'm willing to leave Canada alone as the Apple Computer to our Microsoft.. That way we can look up and say, see, we are not a monopoly!!!

And for the record nyef, most people that don't know what is going on in the rest of the world don't do much here either.. Personally, I think trying to be more European is what is causing so many of our problems here.. We aren't Europeans.. Don't want to be..

Originally Posted by nyef

I am American and I think foreigners' opinions and influence are a net positive for the US. Considering how isolated and myopic the US public is, if we didn't have foreigners to inject a sense of global awareness we'd go downhill even faster than we already are.

Kind of like Microsoft asking Apple for advice on how their company should be run, and then following it. I'm sure that would lead to financial success for Microsoft.

Can this be right? Can this be real?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4749183.ece

Originally Posted by serandfae

BTW, Palin stole the conservative chicks in power idea from Maggie Thatcher.

That's actually probably true Wouldn't class her as an Iron Lady though...

Hi all,

I'm from Europe and I believe most of the European citizen would be willing to pay a tax to have something to say in a vote. especially since the 2 GWB mandates in a row. I mean, we already have to send our youth fighting for wars we didn't want, we might as well try to elect someone who is not so belligerent. But, when the economy is going done, nothing better than a little war to give it a boost and make people focus on something else.

Originally Posted by juliensimon

I mean, we already have to send our youth fighting for wars we didn't want, we might as well try to elect someone who is not so belligerent

Not sure what part of Europe Vancouver is in, but it is my understanding that the Germans and many other European countries are not pulling their equal weight in Afghanistan so I don't know that your statement above is qualified. The implication would be that when G.W. Bush, or Barack Obama, or John McCain, or Sarah Palin says your youth are going to invade Iraq or Iran, you say "Yes Sir!". You sure you are OK with that?

I dont know enough about US policy or EU plolicy to make any real contribution to this discussion but from my own experiences and how I have seen things change since the UK signed upto the EU (which meant much more influence from foreign policies etc)....

I dont think the US should take any foreign policy or finger pointing to seriously, and I definitely dont think they should adopt European policies. Speaking for myself I think a few European countries should adopt a few US policies - NATO might actually get something done regarding global terrorism rather than having to be led.

I heard a speech once about France not putting any forces into a region (cant remember which one) and a US spokesman compared it to leaving you harmonica at home when going to war - it would be nice to have it but for the job that needs doing its not use.

IMHO Britain signing upto Europe was a mistake, whilst I dont pretend to know the ins and outs of foreign policy I can get the perceived benefits but constant 'having to comply' to foreign policy and European law hasn't done us any good and I would hate to think the US would go down the same route.

If things I hear from friends in northern Europe are accurate the EU may not survive intact anyway.. Some countries are already grumbling about the entire process and are looking at getting out..

Originally Posted by cbwm

Not sure what part of Europe Vancouver is in

haha. I've been in Vancouver for a year. born and raised in France for 24 years.

Originally Posted by cbwm

The implication would be that when G.W. Bush, or Barack Obama, or John McCain, or Sarah Palin says your youth are going to invade Iraq or Iran, you say "Yes Sir!". You sure you are OK with that?

No we are not ok with that. That's why we said no to the Irak war. (which led to the creation of the freedom fries)
But we still have the "casques bleus" who go get in between armies without guns and get killed.

Originally Posted by juliensimon

haha. I've been in Vancouver for a year. born and raised in France for 24 years.

quote by me!

I heard a speech once about France not putting any forces into a region (cant remember which one) and a US spokesman compared it to leaving you harmonica at home when going to war - it would be nice to have it but for the job that needs doing its not use.

No offense meant juliensimon

Originally Posted by juliensimon

haha. I've been in Vancouver for a year. born and raised in France for 24 years.

I was born in Verdun.. Left when very young and been back many times to explore and learn..

Not as unworldly as some people would like to think I am

Originally Posted by juliensimon

No we are not ok with that. That's why we said no to the Irak war. (which led to the creation of the freedom fries) But we still have the "casques bleus" who go get in between armies without guns and get killed.

My point exactly. When France, or any other country, is ready to become the 51st state and send their youth to die at the whim of the U.S. president with Congressional approval, then you get a say in U.S. elections with your votes (assuming statehood was approved by the U.S.). In the meantime, France remains an independent country with the right to abstain from U.S. conflicts and all the other nice things that go along with independence. To ask for that independence as well as some say in U.S. politics is to try to have your cake and eat it to. I believe it was Marie Antoinette who stated best France's position on cake eating.

By the way, I said it once, but I'll repeat it for clarity. I'm not singling out France. I think that analogy applies to any foreign nation who would like to "have their say" in US elections.