Global warming is just a made up bs story.

It's September currently here in Massachusetts, and it's already dropping to mid 20°F during the nights and averaging around 55-60°F during the day.

Global warming? I declare bull crap.

Originally Posted by cbwm

Sorry Julien,

The problem is, you cant equate stealing a purse, or anything else to the type of "pollution" you are referring to. It would be like saying a soccer mom driving her kids to the game in her carbon emitting, gas guzzling SUV is the same as someone robbing or stealing, when in reality the two don't even come close to equating. If we all truly want to stop polluting and have a truly zero footprint, we need to all stop breathing. I'm sure you will find that solution as unwelcome as I do.

The properly stated goal is to reduce our footprint within the boundaries of reason. When you point out that reducing our carbon footprint will have a negligible effect on the production of greenhouse gases, it just seems like common sense to focus our efforts on surviving the ice age your article makes clear is inevitable and soon to arrive. I'm not advocating ramping up our CO2 output, but it would make sense to not stop breathing in the meantime in an effort to avoid the unavoidable. If you really want to address the problem at its core, we dont need to go back in time 500 years. We need to reduce world population to what it was 500 years ago, and our carbon footprint will unquestionably reduce to something similar, even if every last one of us drives a smokey car with no catalytic converter.

My point is that I am really sad when I show an article showing that there is something even worse than green house gas and that our planet is even more endangered than people thought it was and most of the reactions are: "I'm relieved because it wasn't completely my fault afteall" when a normal reaction would be: "oh man, we are screwed".


I'm not saying a soccer mom shoudn't drive her kid to soccer, I'm saying that she should carpool with other kids and moms.
All I'm saying is that if things are going down so fast, any little help to slow down the fall would help not to get hurt too badly when touching the bottom.

Originally Posted by dWhite

Global warming is just a made up bs story.

It's September currently here in Massachusetts, and it's already dropping to mid 20°F during the nights and averaging around 55-60°F during the day.

Global warming? I declare bull crap.

You declare bull crap? Watch this video, it's 9 minutes long, but it should help you to decide whether you should to do something about "possible" global warming or not, whether it exists or not:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zORv8wwiadQ

Originally Posted by juliensimon

a normal reaction would be: "oh man, we are screwed".

That, of course, depends on your definition of normal. Personally, I'm not an "Oh man, we are screwed" type of guy. I believe the prayer goes:
"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can and the Wisdom to know the difference."
It seems the "We are screwed" reaction isn't really all that helpful. If your report is right, trying to get a mother of three to carpool in an effort to cut carbon emission is like p*ssing on a forest fire in an effort to put it out. Not only will it not have much impact on the fire, but you'll probably burn your wiener. Somethings are just better to get the hell out of the way of.

Originally Posted by cbwm

That, of course, depends on your definition of normal. Personally, I'm not an "Oh man, we are screwed" type of guy. I believe the prayer goes:
"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can and the Wisdom to know the difference."
It seems the "We are screwed" reaction isn't really all that helpful. If your report is right, trying to get a mother of three to carpool in an effort to cut carbon emission is like p*ssing on a forest fire in an effort to put it out. Not only will it not have much impact on the fire, but you'll probably burn your wiener.

What I meant is instead of being relieved like andrei55 was, I would think at first, we are screwed, then I would try to think about what we can do to make it better. I just expect a different reaction than: oh, I can keep on polluting as much as I want, there is something out there that is worse.

Originally Posted by cbwm

Somethings are just better to get the hell out of the way of.

As far as I am concerned, there is no where else we can go now so if we don't stop the fire that's burning earth, we are gonna burn more than our wiener.
If I throw one bucket of water on a forest fire, it won't do much. If 6.7 billions people do it, we might start to see results.

I just wanted to say first, it has been a good while before I put really put any thought into these topics, quite frankly I have not had the time nor energy; but today I found myself with some extra time so…

Sorry Julien, I really wanted to read this article, I really did, but when I pulled up the page the sites subtitle reads “Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community” so naturally I had to stop right there. I mean really that would be like reading an article on Obama from the McCain camp, it’s going to be more doctored than Michael Jackson’s nose. The honest truth is that “Green” is just a phase, a style in the GQ magazine; and everyone will forget about it when it starts to affect them financially. Just look at how the senate finally is going to allow an increase in off-shore drilling (which is long overdue btw).

So you're suggesting I should just drop everything and cry? Maybe cry myself to sleep? Maybe whisper to myself "We're screwed"?

If I can't do anything about it, why would I worry about it? It's out of my control. 20 times more methane than whatever we're polluting might be released into the atmosphere. Okay... where do I fit into all of that?

If I had a minute of life left, I would drink a can of Pepsi and throw that B*tch on the floor. I wouldn't think to myself "Where's the recycling bin?".

Don't get me wrong ... I'm concerned about my life and my world. But ... don't get too preoccupied with it. Chances are nothing's going to happen. It IS all bull crap. Al gore has to make money from somwhere ... he simply decided to feed you bullcrap for a living. I acknowledge that there is a problem, but not nearly as amplified as any of the "pros" make it out to be. There are far more dangerous things out there.

If I'm part of the last 10 that still utilize electricity (in the world), then I'll stop too.

Originally Posted by andrei155

If I had a minute of life left, I would drink a can of Pepsi and throw that B*tch on the floor. I wouldn't think to myself "Where's the recycling bin?".
If I'm part of the last 10 that still utilize electricity (in the world), then I'll stop too.

That's exactly my point. People are so selfish. Think about how many people die in the world everyday. Think about if all of them would be to throw a can of pepsi on the ground. Of course, that's just an image, everyone pollutes in a different way.

If you are part of the last 10 that still utilize electricity in the world, then you will stop too. What if everybody thinks the same way? Nothing will ever be done.

I am not trying to convince anyone here. I am not saying I am mister perfect and you guys are all bad. I was just trying to raise awareness. Obviously I failed.

Butterfly wings can create tornadoes. Unless the butterfly doesn't want fly but would rather drive a hummer.

Originally Posted by juliensimon

Butterfly wings can create tornadoes. Unless the butterfly doesn't want fly but would rather drive a hummer.

Some butterflies are naked, eating sushi in the back of a limo with a couple midgets, a transvestite, a donkey, and Eddie Murphy.

This is why I'm moving to Kentucky and going off the grid.. I see all these people arguing about it but none of you doing anything.. I'll be nice and smug in my self contained property making my own electricity, bio diesel, and food living in my swank underground home with a satellite uplink to the interwebs where I can watch everyone freak out..

Took a pickup truck full of aluminum to the recycler yesterday.. An F350 dually pickup truck load.. Got $16.. Wasn't even worth the fuel I burned to get there.. Not terribly efficient use of resources, but it makes the tree huggers happy.. Take a truckload of plastics in about every other month.. Don't get paid, and don't see it doing much good when the people that pick it up tend to dump it in the "dump" more often than not.. But it makes the tree huggers happy..

Switched to the compact flouerescent bulbs, saved a bit on the electric bill, but the light sucks for doing art so I had to replace them with daylight bulbs in the studio.. Not to mention the mercury in them..

The tree hugger feel good car of the moment is the Prius.. Yet over the span of it's life it's worse for the environment than my F350 is because of all the damned plastic and NiCads..

Let's not even go in to the fake environmental savings of electric cars.. All that does is move the "pollution" from the tailpipe to the electric generation facilities which usually burn "coal" to make power.. So clean.. So friendly..


And our hero of the environment?? The guy selling carbon credits that make it ok to pollute?? The guy with the $7000 electric bill?? You know, the guy that passed the laws that say I can't sell carbon credits without going through an approved company, which he happens to own, what has he done "personally" to help?? Nothing?? Maybe when he flies all over the world talking about how evil we are in his private jet spewing fuel and exhaust in to the upper atmosphere and takes a couple tree huggers with him..

Yes, this whole topic makes me sick..

Oh, and for the record cbwm, when I read your post about wieners getting burned, the first thing I thought was, why do soccer moms have wieners??

Originally Posted by Feydakin

This is why I'm moving to Kentucky and going off the grid.. I see all these people arguing about it but none of you doing anything.. I'll be nice and smug in my self contained property making my own electricity, bio diesel, and food living in my swank underground home with a satellite uplink to the interwebs where I can watch everyone freak out..

Now your talking though you left out the guns and gold. Your going to need a healthy supply of firearms and ammunition to keep bandits from pillaging your nest in their desperate hunt for food and warmth. An underground compound should be pretty easy to secure and definitely will provide protection from the ice age happening above. Getting liquid assets converted to gold coins and nuggets will assure you are sitting at the top of the food chain when food is in short supply and the financial systems have collapsed.

Personally, I'm headed for Central America. I can grow all the food my family eats on my ranch, and the ice age and rising ocean waters will never touch it. Redundant satellite uplink and microwave connections assure communication with the outside world while well built fences and firearms keep it a quiet distance. A small hydro generator in my river can supply enough power for 40 homes, leaving me with fuel and spare parts for the vehicles as the only unsolved problems for the long haul.

Is it living green? Yes, but not because I think its going to save the planet and avert an ice age. There are close to three billion people between China and Africa pitching their garbage and sewage into rivers and pumping "green house" gases into the air at a rate far exceeding anything seen in Europe or North America. That isn't going to change any time soon, and if and when it does, it will be because the financial situations of those populations allow them to worry about something besides putting food in their children's mouths. And now this article about how the melting ice is releasing "green house" gases at 20 times the pace humans are. Even if we could go to zero emission (impossible), we would have to find a way to stop the melting ice from accelerating its own process(impossible).

Originally Posted by Feydakin

Oh, and for the record cbwm, when I read your post about wieners getting burned, the first thing I thought was, why do soccer moms have wieners??

Hah! I would direct the jury to note that while I did mention soccer moms and weiners in the same sentence, I never implied that soccer moms have wieners. Kind of like McCain bringing up Mexico and Latin America while talking about Spain.

I never mention guns.. The less the bad guys know about my "arsenal" the safer I feel But I will say that my Weatherby 7mm Magnum with the 3x12 scope can reach out and touch things from a very long distance

In a total collapse gold will become worthless.. Tangible goods/skills will be worth far more.. But as a jeweler and coin collector I have a bit of that stashed away as well as a hedge against the dollar collapsing..

I looked at land in Argentina.. 28,000 for some stupid low amount of money.. But with the instability of the governments there is no guarantee that I would get to keep it for long if I didn't have the man power and ammo to keep it.. So we'll stick with the conservationist rednecks in Ky/Tenn..

I saw a "man on the street" interview with some Chinese citizens that was enlightening to say the least.. When asked about pollution and global warming and why they weren't doing more about it the general answer was 'Europe and the America's got to pollute for more than 100 years before they were forced to clean up, it's our turn'.. Interesting attitude.. And did you see how much the air in Beijing cleaned up during the Olympics?? From opening day to close day, with all the factories shut down and all the rain the difference was staggering..

And one last rant against the saviour of the planet and carbon credits..

A typical "plan" goes like this.. Buy a forest in Europe.. Clear cut it.. Sell the timber.. Now you can sell the "carbon credits" to some factory that will be allowed to continue to pollute because, get this, they are paying to "plant trees".. These people make money when they clear cut, then they make money when they plant, and the polluters still get to pollute.. What a fabulous way to save the planet..

Like I said, the whole topic makes me sick.. When I was a kid my father worked for the Indiana Conservation Society.. Their job was to help people manage their land / farms / woods / deer / turkey / pheasants / etc etc etc.. I had always planned to follow him in to field.. But somewhere along the way the tree huggers decided the conservation wasn't good enough and killed the programs.. And look where that has us more then 30 years later.. Damned hippies..

a couple of comments:
- Carbon credits are the dumbest invention - the whole "if you are rich it's okay to pollute" is just insane.
- I like the idea of everyone living in a farm growing their own food but the reality is that we don't have enough land and proper soil on earth for that to be real. (considering everyone on earth agreed to do so)

Same thing with organic food. It takes more room and longer to grow which is why we can't feed the world population with organic food. It's pretty sad.

As for me, I try yo live as "green" as possible: composting, using transit, recycling, buying local, not drinking coffee, using as less energy as possible (wearing blankets at home and not putting too much heat) etc etc...
I am aware that it is not much compared to the amount of pollution released everyday but again, if everyone tries, maybe we'll get somewhere.

I'm sure that factories and large corporations release MUCH, MUCH more pollution that the average Joe does ... maybe even 1000's of average Joe. So just because all us Joes stop polluting, it doesn't necessarily mean we're helping the earth. And no one's going to say "Oh, I'll drop my multi-million business so that I can live greener".

My Grandparents own a farm, and they produce their own food. Actually they live in a tightly knit community out in the country (in Romania) where they all help each other out, and share different products and livestock. Although, there are a few privately owned stores around ... offering many kinds of goods, it's not really what the people relly on. My Dad lived on this farm for most of his childhood, up until he attended highschool, at which point he had to move to the city. I too spent most of my *early* childhood on this farm. Things are still the same now ..

It's not all too bad, and it makes up a very nice lifestyle. Fresh air, no worries, no nonsense. Take care of your cow, feed the chickens, cut the grass, and have a drink with the neighbours!

Originally Posted by juliensimon

I would think at first, we are screwed, then I would try to think about what we can do to make it better.

Sorry - taking "corrective" action only applies when you can take $700 billion from tax payers (whether they like it or not) and give it to Wall Street tycoons.

When there's an actual problem that needs solving, in reality, we're not supposed to do anything to make it better. But, when greedy CEOs threaten to lose their shirts, well, we all need to jump!

Originally Posted by andrei155

I'm sure that factories and large corporations release MUCH, MUCH more pollution that the average Joe does ... maybe even 1000's of average Joe. So just because all us Joes stop polluting, it doesn't necessarily mean we're helping the earth.

That's true. There is one thing people can do so that corporations don't release as much pollution is buy local. If you only buy local products, you eliminate all the pollution done by shipping which is a big part of it.
+ we are running out of gas so it has a double benefit
+ supporting your own community makes every around you happier

If it's already at my local supermarket, the pollution has already been released. Not buying it would be like spitting in mother earth's face. The least we can do is buy it!

Canada alone has enough Gasoline to provide the worlds needs for the next 300 years.

Originally Posted by andrei155

If it's already at my local supermarket, the pollution has already been released. Not buying it would be like spitting in mother earth's face. The least we can do is buy it!

Canada alone has enough Gasoline to provide the worlds needs for the next 300 years.

If everybody starts to buy only local, then they will stop shipping products from far away that no one buys.
But I guess that is me dreaming again and not very realistic.