Just curious...

What is everyone thinking regarding the next president when he steps into office? Will the world change instantly, or will it be a slow change, or will it be the same as it was with president Bush?

When Obama takes office, some things will begin to slowly change for the better. Sadly, the damage Bush has allowed and committed will be long lasting.

like the stupid war in Iraq...

Originally Posted by juliensimon

like the stupid war in Iraq...

McCain says he'll be happy if the Iraq war takes another 100 years.

he actually said that?? Where and when?

I can't verify this at work, but Google suggests it's a good video to watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFknKVjuyNk

Whoever wins, we'll have to come up with a phrase similar to, "Nothing sucks like a Hoover."

tim

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

When Obama takes office, some things will begin to slowly change for the better. Sadly, the damage Bush has allowed and committed will be long lasting.

When...??? Don't bake the cake yet he has not won... yet.

Originally Posted by serandfae

Whoever wins, we'll have to come up with a phrase similar to, "Nothing sucks like a Hoover."

tim

As much as I don't care for Bush, he is a far cry from Hoover

As for the original question, I think it all depends on who takes office. I think if Obama is helped in... er I mean elected in, our country will face an attack of some kind or in the words of his own vp "a test". As for McGrand Pa... things will continue much like they are now, I do believe the money crisis will soon resolve under both of them.

Regarding the financial crisis, its resolution in the near future is doubtful. That's why I said whoever is elected is going to get the blame for the next Depression, hence the Hoover reference. I wasn't actually referring to Bush, though his policies have helped greatly to contribute to the crisis. No sane individual would hang this mess entirely on him, though.

tim

Once fully briefed on the whys and what fors very little is going to change no matter which guy wins.

There will be a lot of talk but there won't be much action.

The only thing you can count on for sure is that if Obama wins you will pay more taxes if you are in the 60% of American workers that pay any.

Originally Posted by serandfae

Regarding the financial crisis, its resolution in the near future is doubtful. That's why I said whoever is elected is going to get the blame for the next Depression, hence the Hoover reference. I wasn't actually referring to Bush, though his policies have helped greatly to contribute to the crisis. No sane individual would hang this mess entirely on him, though.

tim

The best argument I've heard to pin this on Bush is that he didn't do enough in his 8 years in office to prevent it. How do you argue against that? From what I've read, the single biggest contributing factor to this mess is failure to regulate the Credit Default Swap market like an insurance business. That decision was made in 1998, pushed by the congressional Republicans, encouraged by then Pres. Clinton, and voted into law in the Senate by a vote of 95-0.

It could never be fixed overnight, regardless of the president, but our current sitting president has already set the wheels in motion to bring about a correction. This mess doesn't need to wind up with a depression, but the actions, or failure to act by the next sitting president could definitely make it one. Obama is a bright guy, smarter than McCain I suspect, but there is no question hes dirty. Somehow, having him at the helm with Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and the others who fought reform for Fannie Mae makes me suspect that whatever "cleanup" legislation is passed is going to be laden with BS like a 25% payload for groups like ACORN.

I don't like McCain, but at least he has a pretty spotless record in regard to corruption, and chose a running mate that clearly feels giving more money to the governernment is not the answer.

Ever hear of the Law of Diminishing Returns? How about robbing Peter to pay Paul? How long do you think government can run up trillions in debt, growing with interest and each year's multibillion dollar deficit, before it ceases to have the short-term benefit of bolstering the economy? How long do you really think it's going to be before hyperinflation sets in? (Never mind, that's already started, along with severe devaluing of the dollar. That's not just a function of trade, mind you.) I just said Bush wasn't solely responsible, he's far from the squeaky clean saint you're making him out to be.

tim

Originally Posted by serandfae

I just said Bush wasn't solely responsible, he's far from the squeaky clean saint you're making him out to be.

tim

Do you have other examples of his guilt outside of deficit spending? If so, neither of the candidates we currently have for president are promising a balanced budget and fiscal responsibility, so I'm hard pressed to see what real change they are going to bring. To Clinton's credit, he betrayed his party and balanced the budget, cutting welfare benefits to make it happen.

Lets face it. If we argue that Bush's guilt lies in deficit spending, Obama is definitely promising more of the same, just spending on different things. If we argue that deficit spending isn't the culprit:

1) It becomes harder to lay blame at the feet of Bush
2) It leaves you with corruption and corporate greed as likely culprits making McCain the more desirable candidate.

Originally Posted by serandfae

How long do you really think it's going to be before hyperinflation sets in?

Unfortunately, you're right that this is already starting, in the form of our dollar deflating like a basket ball with a bullet hole.

Originally Posted by cbwm

Do you have other examples of his guilt outside of deficit spending?

Other than helping Reagan and Daddy Bush multiply the federal debt by a factor of ten, Lil' Bush had and has the opportunity to tap the strategic oil reserves, which would both help Americans and cripple states like Iran and Venezuela. He won't, because it would pinch his wallet. He's as corrupt or more than either of those poised to take his place. You want more?

Originally Posted by cbwm

If so, neither of the candidates we currently have for president are promising a balanced budget and fiscal responsibility, so I'm hard pressed to see what real change they are going to bring. To Clinton's credit, he betrayed his party and balanced the budget, cutting welfare benefits to make it happen.

I'm astonished that you'd actually give Clinton that credit. Getting back to the OP, I'd still trust Obama more with fiscal responsibility. He'd be practically expected to go that way. McCain's still an old school borrow and spend Republican. We could go the fantasy football way and try to engineer someone with Reagan's foreign policy and Clinton's fiscal policy, yet, alas, we'll be dreaming for many decades to come.

Originally Posted by cbwm

Lets face it. If we argue that Bush's guilt lies in deficit spending, Obama is definitely promising more of the same, just spending on different things. If we argue that deficit spending isn't the culprit:

1) We might as well argue that the sky is chartreuse.
2) Whoever's feet the blame falls upon, neither candidate has the ability to tie his shoes without injury, let alone work toward solving the problem, so we're all screwed.

tim

Hello,

Haha When Obama becomes president. The man can't even prove hes a natural born citizen - Him as president is a JOKE!. When McCain becomes president! Know your facts. No politician is 'squeaky clean' but, you vote for the less of the two evils. McCain has the knowledge and understanding to get our great country turned around. Obama on the other hand has only been Senator for 140 some days before he decided to run for President of this great land. You can not sit there and tell me you rather have a man with less experience and knowledge as President. Think long and hard before you let a man like Barack Hussein Obama Jr. to have the highest office, able to have access to all of the United States confidential records. Given Obamas past he wouldn't even be able to be in the FBI yet, we would want him to be our President. Get your head out of your @ss!

Originally Posted by The-Pixel

Given Obamas pasted he wouldn't even be able to be in the FBI yet, we would want him to be our President.

It would be very helpful if you could write in English, so we could understand you.

Watching her deny to Gibson that she had ever harbored the slightest doubt about her readiness to take command of the world's only superpower, one got the feeling that Palin would gladly assume any responsibility on earth:

"Governor Palin, are you ready at this moment to perform surgery on this child's brain?"

"Of course, Charlie. I have several boys of my own, and I'm an avid hunter."

@The-Pixel-- Neither I nor my wife likes either candidate. She's Republican, I'm a Democrat, but we're largely centrist and vote for the best candidate. She'll vote for McCain, chances are I'll vote for Obama. We'll both be picking the Republican candidate for governor here, but both of us are as disgusted with Libby Dole as we have been with Bush.

You, apparently, are not a centrist, as you're spouting the party line diatribe. We read the news and eschew the commercials. And you can rest assured I'll let fly on some left wing schmuck just as readily. I don't do left or right; I do correct.

@Learning Newbie-- Precisely what is it we are to glean from that little quote? I have to say, for once you have me confused.

tim

Originally Posted by serandfae

I don't do left or right; I do correct.

Last time I checked, "right" is a synonym for "correct".

Originally Posted by serandfae

Other than helping Reagan and Daddy Bush multiply the federal debt by a factor of ten, Lil' Bush had and has the opportunity to tap the strategic oil reserves... You want more?

Actually yes, I do want more. I'm hard pressed to put failure to tap the Strategic Oil Reserves as a major screw up or a contributing factor to this financial crisis. Again, I'll give you the deficit spending but what else do you got?

Originally Posted by serandfae

I'm astonished that you'd actually give Clinton that credit. Getting back to the OP, I'd still trust Obama more with fiscal responsibility. He'd be practically expected to go that way. McCain's still an old school borrow and spend Republican.

I'm more than happy to give credit across party lines when someone does something I agree with (Cutting Welfare Benefits). I don't think either one of them plans to be fiscally responsible, and I think you agree so I fail to see how Obama (or McCain)gets an edge there. Again, it brings me back to who is more principaled/less slimey. McCain wins that one hands down.


Edit: On the topic of fiscal responsibility and welfare, I've started a new thread on something you don't see often in the news.

has the opportunity to tap the strategic oil reserves

You mean the oil that is back down to $64/barrel??

As for the original question..

War:

McCain Elected: Some terrorist attack on US help territory or the US itself.. Continued involvement in the middle east and not a lot else will change..

Obama Elected.. Israel will make a pre-emptive strike on Iran between Nov. 4 and Jan 1 because they know that they will get little to no US support for at least 4 years.. If for some reason Israel choses to not attack, Jan. 2009 will see an invasion of Israel by Iran / Syria and a renewed string a bombings..

Economy:

McCain Elected.. Pretty much status quo.. We will see some new taxes but not enough to make people freak out..

Obama Elected.. Between Nov 4 and Jan 1 the stock market will all but crash as people collect whatever capital gains they can get before the rules change and we see people paying based on their ability and collecting based on their need.. Redistribution will effectively cripple small business and we will see a new tax called the "windfall" that will basically be a 100% tax on profits above a nebulous, undefined, amount for large business..

--
If it were up to me, we'd close all military bases in the middle east, and most of Europe.. Build new bases along the US/Mexico border and move those troops home and let them train (patrol) along the southern border..

Eliminate generational welfare by attaching mandatory birth control to all people welfare..

Bring back forced labor in prisons instead of weight rooms..

Improve penalties for creating schemes or implementing plans to commit fraud and embezzlement by requiring 100% payback of money taken (Enron) and imprisonment and future garneshing of wages until the debt is repaid..

Eliminate stock holder lawsuits against boards / companies for failing to "maximize" profit which is really the root cause for most corporate misdeeds anyway..

etc etc etc.. Boy did I run way off topic